Female JC and university alumnus calls ITE students 'failure

FireIce SG

An ex-Junior College and university student made disparaging remarks about Institute of Technical Education (ITE) students online.

STOMPers Koh and Kai Siang had come across her facebook postings and alerted STOMP to them.

On her facebook account, she had written that ITE students 'cannot study' and hence, should not 'challenge JC students in everything'.

She also compared certificates from both schools and pointed out that an 'A' Level certificate would provide more options when it comes to the choice of university courses to study. Her list includes law, medicine and pathology, she said.

The woman then wrote that she found it amusing that people often used the argument that successful entrepreneurs such as Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg were college dropouts.

According to her, this should not be used to refute criticism of ITE students being less capable than others, as there are varying education systems in different countries and it is akin to 'failures' comparing themselves to 'elites'.

In another facebook posting, the woman also shared that she had debated with a law student on how the local university she attended was better than his overseas one.

Both postings have since been removed. However, according to STOMPer Koh, the thread about ITE students reached more than 900 comments. Maintaining her stance, she responded to those who disagreed with her statements.

stomp

TIB1234T SG

Lol... Like that i can also say, you all study so hard, but talk like a cock, brain cui = worst than ITE lah sia...

Genie99b SG

I think that the student is dis-illusioned.

Whilst generally speaking a JC student wud be better at studies than a ITE student...it means just that ...better at studying...it does not mean more intelligent...and definitely does not mean and i quote "that ITE students 'cannot study' and hence, should not 'challenge JC students in everything".

As an example what is to say that said ITE student was simply not interested in studies. It is a fact that some students especially in their teenage years found studies boring. It might not be a sensible thing to do in Singapore but it remains a possibility.

Another example. Whilst some might argue that studying equates to gaining knowledge. I equate it to "the ability to memorise & regurgitate". I'm sure it does help the ability to reason when you reach the stage of doing yer thesis and case studies but for the most part I wud argue that its the former. However I do agree that said ability is important for certain industries......engineering, doctors, accountants.... where 1+1=2 and anything else is wrong. But I wud argue it is less crucial for industries like sales & marketing. I remember seing a programme where top management (decision makes) were interviewed on TV to comment on education and its impact on their work and most reflected that it was simply a tool and had little impact on a day to day basis. When needed they wud refer back to books.

I will also argue that whilst being in JC opens doors and probably wud give a headstart in terms of career choices it does not imply that said person wud b more successful in life. In this case lets assume $ = success. It is useful but not the only factor and certainly not the most important.

TooFree SG

I think the writer has skipped a "ladder step" as shown in the picture choosing to compared with the lowest educational rung and in this aspect the ITE students after the students have streamlined into their respective schools after their completion of their GCE O level.

Was it a moment of folly that the writer has omitted the polytechnic stage where they can and is able to land themselves in places like law, medicine etc in local Universities. ITE is however an institution that builds on the foundation of office skills, technical specialists or business support roles not withstanding that they may still stands a chance to enter into polytechnics to further progess into the area of their specialisations.

Please 'mind' your steps.

Craptalkone SG

i can fix JC gorls who are notti

a mugger SG

A Jc student who does not have good analytical skills unexpected from a Gp student who made to local uni for the A levels. Her arguments are weak and biased.

Firstly,she compared ITE and JC solely on academics.

In my opinion,work experience>academics. Even with theoretical knowledge,it is pointless without any work experience and skills.Hence,it is rather unfair to criticise ITE students based on academics.Some of them are exposed to working and are able to succeed especially in the F and B sector.Their salaries can actually supersede an average Jc student. http://www.reliableplant.com/Read/11307/education-vs-experience

Next,more options does not necessarily equate to success.People are able to thrive with limited options too.With lesser options,it has been constantly shown that one will lead a more satisfactory life with fewer difficult decisions to make.

Last but not least,she should not generalise that the ITE students compare themselves with Bill Gates,Steve Jobs.Each student has their own forms of motivation,drive and passion to succeed.Never look down on someone who is trying to look up to a charismatic/well-known role-model who has succeed in life.It may be their very motivation to achieve in life.

Moral of the story:Never Judge a person by his character,qualification.After all,Judgement is the evaluation of concrete evidence before making a decision.(Dictionary)

Summer hill SG

I will only attend top JCs for the relations sake. I heard that currently, there's a Year 3 student in RGS whose father is an MP. I want to be connected to her.

And also, I am expecting a huge number of RGS girls to have affluent parents who can help me in my social climbing. I observed that they like to live by a rule of "meritocracy" than background, I will be welcomed there if I ever get in.

Remember, knowing affluent people can help you a lot. Yea it maybe cronyism but in order to suceed in my chosen field, I need it.

charlize SG

ite student can fix aircon.

jc student can or not?

FireIce SG

JC student can change lightbulb

(who rbers?)

charlize SG

JC student can change lightbulb

(who rbers?)

o rly?

a mugger SG

I will only attend top JCs for the relations sake. I heard that currently, there's a Year 3 student in RGS whose father is an MP. I want to be connected to her.

Remember, knowing affluent people can help you a lot. Yea it maybe cronyism but in order to suceed in my chosen field, I need it.

Try to enter based on CCA/leadership via DSA if your results do not hit the cut-off point.Not so sure about cronyism in academics but I guess in the working place,it does exists more extensively.

Anyway,some advice to consider:1.Be ready for the academic rigour you are expected to face there.(As far as I know,students,as you mentioned,came from affluent families,have an added bonus to their studying schedule.)That is,tuition.Most of the students will be ahead in class,in skills,content and concepts.

2.You must balance your cca and studies,even so if you want to choose a cca with lesser commitment,top schools will place emphasis on balancing academics and cca.)If you enter by DSA,plan a schedule.

3.It's better to mix with the upper notch students to study with them,learn concepts with them instead of manipulating them.Perhaps,I will advise you to study with her and find out what she is being taught,how she learns.I assure you that,you will be par with her in terms of academics.

4.Meritocracy(work hard and get rewarded):+study smart(exam skills and practices for calculative math question)>>will earn you a spot there.

5.Last but not least,I will like to break the belief that top jcs produce the successful crop.In statistics,it is inevitable to face the fact that top jcs produce the top students in academics.However,does this statistics zoom in on the average students?(esp.those who are in the mid-range) Ever heard of big fish in small pond? Top students select the schools that are closest to their house and still thrive in the system.There will be numerous learning opportunities for these big fishes.They get the "best" teachers in the school to teach them.The school generally focuses on the well-being of the class.This is similar to living like kings and queens in middle-age castles compared to living like peasants in today's advanced world. The choice is yours to make.

There are those who share the same opinion as you and they can still succeed.But the chances are lower with the top in neighbourhood schools.

To add on,it is the student who makes the difference.Teachers can guide you and nurture you,groom you to be the next President scholar,First class honours and even doctorates.However,it is your exams.The game is ready to begin and continue after you finish reading this response I posted.

Summer hill SG

Try to enter based on CCA/leadership via DSA if your results do not hit the cut-off point.Not so sure about cronyism in academics but I guess in the working place,it does exists more extensively.

2.You must balance your cca and studies,even so if you want to choose a cca with lesser commitment,top schools will place emphasis on balancing academics and cca.)If you enter by DSA,plan a schedule.

4.Meritocracy(work hard and get rewarded):+study smart(exam skills and practices for calculative math question)>>will earn you a spot there.

There are those who share the same opinion as you and they can still succeed.But the chances are lower with the top in neighbourhood schools.

do you recomend that I enter a JC based on location rather than ranking?

I don't know well but I know top schools have abundance of oppurnities than "neighbourhood" schools, and I can clearly see it now happening right before my eyes. "All schools are good schools", is a bullshit statement. Throught some contacts I made entirely by myself [my entire family knows no one in the government], the government likes the top school people to get into politics and governance, this information is already well-known but now I can see it before my eyes. I don't want to bring it out on what I witnessed because I don't want to lose what I have now. Singapore is a really elitist state and the government is supporting it. YES THEY SUPPORT THE ELITE CULTURE. This should not be new.

I have seen some of the students and they are perfectionist. They are talented in EVERY SINGLE THING: Art, studies, dance, music. Some struggle with schoolwork despite the fact that they don't have any other obligations like taking a music dipolma. I am frankly intimidated by those perfectionist.

As you know, Singapore has a really ELITE CULTURE THAT IS NOT DYING BUT THRIVING. It is thriving. I want to enter civil service but I heard that the department I want to enter is STILL VERY ELITIST. Omg.

jlowbog SG

haiz..
a wealthly n smart parents best gift to their children is not money.
a pauper worst punishment to his children is not poverty.

but genes.

M the name SG

Don't worry, after graduation, she will be like this : http://www.epicmonster.com/picture-505-graduation-.html

Craptalkone SG

i ca also fix uni girls who are notti hehe

a mugger SG

Listen to yourself and not others.Ask truly what you desire.If you want to pursue the civil service,you should prove it by your abilities.Gce O/A levels is a good gauge for academic performance.If you disagree with me,you can also choose to appeal.I sense the passion and hunger to succeed from you. That's good,you have a motivation that keeps you moving closer towards it.The existence of the Bell Curve appears to create fairness but turns out to be a rather elitist measure.

You know,each year we compete with 30k for O levels and around 15k for A levels.That's a large number to pit against if you want to hit the 30% distinction(which the bell curve tends to moderate for science to English)

Then,I see a larger problem here.Feel free to take a look at Gaokao:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Higher_Education_Entrance_Examination

As you can see,millions take the exams and millions fail to qualify because of the high competition.Maybe 1 mark may kick you back 3000 spots?Now,you know why Chinese students work so hard to do well in Sg and in their homeland.To thrive,you must have the right studying habits and an action plan to carry out.

You may disagree or agree with me,genes and family upbringing creates these students.I know of perfectionist too in arts,science,physical activities,leadership and communication. Unlike you,I accept them.Why fear them when they cannot control their genes/family upbringing. Instead,try to interact with them and ask them for guidance from academics to emotional problems.Do not feel jealous,be thankful.Please appreciate learning beyond competition.Excessive focus on competition does a man no good. Thinking for 5 minutes and keeping calm rejuvenates the mind to focus on the important areas.

I am reserved to suggest anything but only to convince you that be it from top schools or average schools,elitism exists everywhere.However,since you disfavour elitism,it makes my point that you should try to orientate not going to top schools because elitism also exists in top schools and in a greater concentration.The choice is yours to make.

The department I want to enter is also elitist.In fact,one of the most elitist in Sg.The only thing I tell myself each day is to have faith and confidence.If you revised,alright.If the other student did not revise and did better,ok.Ask this student how he/she does it.I am always in preference of this method as it is helpful for me.

Jia you and use your holidays well~

JelloPoop SG

According to Howard Gardner there are 9 different types of intelligence and each intelligence is independent of one another and may interrect with each other in different ways. He believed people to have all of those intelligence, just that they have diffferent levels in each of them.

This goes against Charles Spearman's G factor analysis of intelligence : Intelligence is a unitary ability (G factor) ( means if u do well in IQ test, u do well in other areas too, most IQ test are logical/, mathematical and linguistic test, same as academic tests)

In most educational institue in Singapore, they mainly test you on logical/ mathematical intellignce, linguistic intelligence through academic tests (only 2)

Singapore has placed its emphasis on education. It has integrated the importance of academic education onto its people. As a result other forms of intelligence such as musical, bodily kinestic, spartial or personal intelligence has become second fiddle to logical/mathematic and linguistic.

However we cannot deny the existance of other forms of intellignece. We see people showing their musical itnelligence in musicians, bodily kinestic in sports athletic, spartial in artists and personal intelligence through interaction of others and knowledge of themselves.

Even then there have been studies on gifted and high IQ particpants in Lewis Terman's test of 1500 particpants with above average IQ (140). Over the years he tracked their achievement in life and yes 2/3 of the particiapnts became professionals in their respective fields but the other 1/3 were not so successful. So does intelligence ALWAYS lead to success?

Again experitments have been conducted on NON cognitive skills such as emotional intellgience, social skills etc etc and have found them to have an important role in achieveing success.

Also there are idiot savants (Low IQ ppl) who are successful in other fields such as Alonzo clemons, sculptor, Kim Peeks, memory and Leslie lemke just to name a few.

Some have classified Gardners analysis as talents, skills, abilities but how else then do we explain the effects of music therapy on autistic children?

I think what Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligence is trying to tell us is that everyone is good for something...too bad we live in a society where certain forms of intelligence are prioritised above others.

^Acid^ aka s|aO^eH~ SG

Why this JC girl relates "everything" to "Academic"???

study until uni, yet think everything = academic

Summer hill SG

Why this JC girl relates "everything" to "Academic"???

study until uni, yet think everything = academic

Singapore is an academic-driven society, we are so crazy over grades that we are willing to spend $25 per hour for our kids tuition. [this is even the lowest!]. Of course, academic isn't everything, family backgroud, society and genes plays a huge role as well.

Craptalkone SG

i punish them