Is possession of LOST item a crime?

last SG · 2005-07-11T12:06:08+00:00

well, with the increasing of "cases" to "ah-longs" that people is using another person's IC to borrow money from them.... DO you think they will still opera...

[email protected] SG

Hi all,

Understand our SG law that it is a crime to be in possession of a stolen, theft or robbery items.

What about LOST items?

My friend lost a hp, then came to knew who (a stranger) found it.

The "finder" refused to return the hp as he stated since he found it, he is entitled to keep it because he did not possess the hp thru illegal or forceful means. Rolling Eyes

The "finder" further told my friend that even if he will to sell the hp away to a 2nd hand shop or trade in with Singtel for a new hp, he still have not committed any wrong doing, as far as the law goes. Shocked

Like to know whether the "finder" statement is true?

If it is true, another question came to my mind.

What if a person trade in or sell a STOLEN hp to legitimate company such as Singtel or a 2nd hand shop, when discovered by the police, could Singtel or the 2nd hand shop be held responsible for possession of a STOLEN item?

Or Singtel and the 2nd hand shop could easily use the same reasoning as above that they gain possession of the STOLEN hp thru proper and legal means by paying cash or trade in with another phone, thus they are not to be held responsible for any crime that might have committed, in this case "possession of a stolen item".

Would they (Singtel & the rest) got to keep the hp ultimately?

Thanks in advance for any reply to my questions. Razz

YH

sk1417 SG

if u guys must noe, local telcos dun take just e fones alone.
they need full set accessories meaning
-orig battery
-orig charger
-orig earpc if any
- no modifications done at all
e dealers nowadays also dun tk in the fones alone,
& they will ask u for ur ic before u sell to them.

wat i can suggest if u noe who's that guy go to e police.
chances r u wont get fone bek, but his name is
dwn in e records for gud. so congrats to tht stupid fool!

houndy SG

yes.. possession of property believed to be stolen or fraudulent possesion of property are all crime…forgot which section…

Ito_^ SG

the guy will be in deep shit.

[email protected] SG

Thank you all for your replies. Very Happy

Unless my friend make a police report that his hp was STOLEN, ROB or CHEATED(which is not true in his case), I believe the police will not act on the "finder". Am I right with my assumption here? Since there was no actual crime being committed by the "finder" on my friend to gain the possession of his hp.

Worst case, my friend will kena charge by the police for making a WRONG INFORMATION REPORT when it was proven to be case of LOST hp instead of STOLEN.

Anyway, to cut the case short, my friend was given back his hp after he paid the "finder" $50. Once again, was wondering is there a wrong doing(legally) being committed here since money was used in the exchange.

Btw, read about this front page news on The Straits Times today. What are your views guys?

Database to fight rising cell phone thefts

Police exploring idea of phone identity cards, which could let networks block handsets.

Could the idea by the police works? Would the telcos Singtel, M1 & Starhub co-operate? Already Singtel sound hesistant in their reply to the idea.

YH

shade343 SG

Unlikely the telcos will cooperate, more people lost phones=better handphone sales for the telcos.

[email protected] SG

My sentiment exactly, so how?

Once again, we consumers become suckers.

Or could the police or our gahmen force the telcos to co-operate?

ctstalin SG

Originally posted by [email protected]:
Thank you all for your replies.

Unless my friend make a police report that his hp was STOLEN, ROB or CHEATED(which is not true in his case), I believe the police will not act on the "finder". Am I right with my assumption here? Since there was no actual crime being committed by the "finder" on my friend to gain the possession of his hp.

Worst case, my friend will kena charge by the police for making a WRONG INFORMATION REPORT when it was proven to be case of LOST hp instead of STOLEN.

Anyway, to cut the case short, my friend was given back his hp after he paid the "finder" $50. Once again, was wondering is there a wrong doing(legally) being committed here since money was used in the exchange.

Btw, read about this front page news on The Straits Times today. What are your views guys?

[b]Database to fight rising cell phone thefts

Police exploring idea of phone identity cards, which could let networks block handsets.

Could the idea by the police works? Would the telcos Singtel, M1 & Starhub co-operate? Already Singtel sound hesistant in their reply to the idea.

YH

[/b]

i tink they are hesitant to the idea becos blocking a phone from the network will slow the entire network down... so if u sway sway lost a phone--- too bad...get another one.. Laughing

shade343 SG

Gahmen must introduce legislation! Very Happy

[email protected] SG

OK! Your assumption accepted.... about telcos network operation might slow down.

For discussion sake, what you think of the idea by the police, creating a imea database, assuming w/out telcos co-operation.

How would they go about gathering information and making people like us to participate in such program, for our own benefits?

Or to bring this discussion abit further, what if there is a cost to be charged for implementing this idea. Will you still participate?

Assuming there is a cost to be paid by us, what will be the reasonable amount one prepared to pay?

sk1417 SG

hey all of u stop guessing lah, all wrong. to be very honest w u, im it's not that e telcos not willing, but do u guys noe who's ruling e 3 telcos? IDA - infocom development authority (singapore). if this big boss says no, wat can e 3 telcos do? we can't do anything unless gvn green light by the big boss. n no, police will nvr have such a thing called IMEI database. cos wen u lose phone, no need to mk police report, just call ur svc provider to temporarily disconnect ur line will do.

dun ask me how i noe or where i'm from.
just tk it as it's true cos im not lying.
if i dunno or not sure & not true will not put in black n white here.

dragg SG

it is a crime to keep a lost item even a $1 note.

[email protected] SG

Thanks sk1417 Wink

OIC, so if this problem need to be tackle by the police, first they have to go after the "big boss" - IDA. Laughing

IDA or the telcos may not co-operate with the police to provide the IMEI, what if they get handphone owners to provide the IMEI themselves.

My question was how the police could go about it, meaning getting hp owners to provide the IMEI voluntarily or at least optionally?

YH

laoda99 SG

In sg law, there is no such thing as finders' keeper. Advise your fren to lodge a police report.

sk1417 SG

[email protected], first & foremost u must noe wen it comes to fones police dun wanna handle anymore cos sporeans chngg foneslike nobody's biz.

so if in any case IDA e big boss approves (Which i doubt ever ever will cos been discussed several tyms), e telcos will bar e fones directly. but it doesn't mean owner will get fone bek. just lose fone but finder doesn't stand to gain.
Australia's practising that alr.

it's also troublesome for consumers. imagine u buy fones w/o contract, always calling ur svc provider to update ur new IMEI, irritating or not? u irritatin urself, irritate e customer svc officer.

consumers can find out IMEI thru ur box or if purchased thru e 3 telcos' shops w 2yr contract, will have form, should indicate IMEI on it.

just rmbr police will not meddle w telcos unless serious/life-threatening cases. small petty things like loss cases/stolen stuff, nope. imagine if police do tht der will nvr be peace in e NPCs!

just an advice cos i'll just say i'm a telco person but not saying which...

stellazio SG

if ur fren really can prove that the phone belongs to him/her..go ahead and make the report..

ditzy SG

Wah, imagined a hp with a locked network. Sian, the hp ain't worth anything anymore. Laughing

LazerLordz SG

Hardware ROM can be flashed.

[email protected] SG

So it is a crime to keep a LOST item. Thanks dragg Wink

Double confirmed by laoda99. "kum sia lu" laoda. Laughing

Thanks for the insight sk1417, from someone who is in the telco industry. Very Happy

Could relate to your scenerio, about the irritation of keep updating a IMEI whenever changing to a new hp, have a fren keep changing to the latest model of hp every 2 - 3 months, just like changing underwears. Laughing

Thanks stellazio, but the "finder" was a stranger, have no name, so how to make a report. Neutral Whatever, the case is closed. My fren paid him $50 to get back his hp. Twisted Evil

Understand some advertised to buy locked hp, think there is a way for dishonest people to unlock it. Rolling Eyes Thanks ditzy. Very Happy

Am a technology idiot myself, care to elaborate more about what your statement mean? Thanks LazerLordz Embarassed

Ito_^ SG

wtf. yr fren WILL NOT BE KANA CHARGED!!

anyways, he have evidence that the person contacted him right? got sms? that means the bloody guy is threatening your friend to pay up for his own stuff.

but no... your friend scared, decided not to trust the law and decided to give in to those exhortions.

picking up and keeping things dat does not belong to u is a damm crime. even if its 10 cents. and the worst is, your friend knew the contacts of that bloody thief, talked to him and might even have sms to prove?

and he paid up. wtf. Rolling Eyes