Where are all the Singaporean programmers?

Nelstar SG

and one comes out fresh from an IT course from one of the polys or ITEs and becomes a project manager straight away ? .....

Well if you map the career path of Singaporean programmer and Indian programmer, it is quite easy to figure out.

Singaporean programmer -> sign contract for 2/3 years -> usually leaves in less than 3 years (mostly 1 year plus run) and go for other jobs like management/customer service/financial service for 2 yrs, realized IT still their forte -> come back to become project consultant/manager

Indian Indian programmer -> sign contract for 2/3 years -> stays for another 5/6 years as programmer

BTW i wont even hire poly programmers... less to say ITE programmers. I can hire Indian programmers from India cheaper. Even worse, I hire PRCs.

No offense but Singapore programmers either dont have required skill set, lack experience or simply too expensive to hire. Worse of all, all 3 add together.

kcockicht SG

Nelstar i believe not all sgreans are without the flair for programing. Just that money and pay is to be the motivation for the hard work put in. If its not from indian will be china. but language is also the problem here. Those foregin labor comes here has to understand at least english.

my previous employment got one china man position is engineer definitely not those construction worker grade. but when he open his mouth to speak and present. i don't understand a word he says. and he even present it loud and proud like he some american speaker.

Nelstar SG

Seriously, will you pay an fresh ITE student or an Indian national/Chinese national with degree SGD1500 for programmer job? Will you pay fresh poly student or an Indian national/Chinese national with degree and 3 years exp SGD1800 for programmer job?

Will you even consider paying 2k to a fresh Singaporean degree holder for a programmer job when you can get an Indian national/Chinese national with degree and 5 years exp?

No matter how you do it, the same price you pay for a Singaporean can be replaced with an Indian/Chinese/Pinoy.

And the best part of the joke? Because these IT companies wanna show off their collection of Degree holders, will you think Singaporean IT companies will want to give chance to Singaporeans for programming?

The only programming job that requires a Singaporean will contain extremely sensitive information. I think I do not need to dwell into that.

As for whether the flair for programming, do you think HR staff know how to check?

Fatum SG

Will you even consider paying 2k to a fresh Singaporean degree holder for a programmer job when you can get an Indian national/Chinese national with degree and 5 years exp?

No matter how you do it, the same price you pay for a Singaporean can be replaced with an Indian/Chinese/Pinoy.

The only programming job that requires a Singaporean will contain extremely sensitive information. I think I do not need to dwell into that.

As for whether the flair for programming, do you think HR staff know how to check?

actually, I'm piqued by your last two posts, just curious, so what kind of people do you, or your company hire then ?

Singaporean project consultants and managers with, as you've put it, only one year plus of experience (plus couple more in some other line) .... do you pay them well ?

degree'ed ah tiongs and ah nehs as code monkeys, paying them peanuts ?

So those singkie project managers ? do that get to lord over and squeeze the nuts of the much more experienced code monkeys ?

do you check them for their "programming flair" ?

Nelstar SG

actually, I'm piqued by your last two posts, just curious, so what kind of people do you, or your company hire then ?

Singaporean project consultants and managers with, as you've put it, only one year plus of experience (plus couple more in some other line) .... do you pay them well ?

degree'ed ah tiongs and ah nehs as code monkeys, paying them peanuts ?

So those singkie project managers ? do that get to lord over and squeeze the nuts of the much more experienced code monkeys ?

do you check them for their "programming flair" ?

Problem is HR staff. Hiring is never done by me. I seen too many Indians/Chinese/Pinoy until I pengz.

M for America *pengz*

caleb_chiang SG

They rather hire experienced programmer than to groom. so, programmers here can't find a job when they graduate.

Nelstar SG

They rather hire experienced programmer than to groom. so, programmers here can't find a job when they graduate.

The problem with Singapore is that the IT line is floored by big Government-linked IT companies hiring FTs. Only SME may hire local Singaporeans, but they usually only hire staff with experience. Thus, Singaporeans with little or no experience face strong competition from experienced FTs with higher qualifications.

And those application software engineer in Banking Industries and Financial services will tend to recruit Indian nationals due to the nature that they had been supporting Finance/Banking related software for many years.

Thus, Singaporeans will end up looking for other jobs, secure a degree in IT management and return to end up going in to manage these FTs.

Moreover, Singaporeans in IT industry do not really like to do programming, or do not really enjoy mopping up someone's programming error. Thus, they tend to switch to other fields.

kcockicht SG

Will you even consider paying 2k to a fresh Singaporean degree holder for a programmer job when you can get an Indian national/Chinese national with degree and 5 years exp?

No matter how you do it, the same price you pay for a Singaporean can be replaced with an Indian/Chinese/Pinoy.

The only programming job that requires a Singaporean will contain extremely sensitive information. I think I do not need to dwell into that.

As for whether the flair for programming, do you think HR staff know how to check?

of course i will go for cheaper better alternative. but unless its owned by say a boss of family buisness employment process still go be procedure. until the maximum number of foreign labor is hit die die they syill have to hire some local sgreans. flair for programing even hiring manager difficult to check. platform and ways to work differs with every company. new staff still need a little time during probation to pick up and tune in. as for the sensitive information or job nature service function of sensitive nature yes die die must hire sgreans. you go STkinectis all the technician and people assemblying the battle tanks - know what i see also sian. All malaysian chinese workers. and they can go into such facilities to work.

MXZ SG

actually the basic problem is practice. I believe if singaporean practice enough and skilled them self enough, it is very easy for them to get a programmer job.

In fact, company tend to hire singaporean because it less complicated but the problem with singaporean is beside lousy skill still ask so many things. ask your self..how many of singaporean are willing to work until 11pm but those foreign talents will because they came here with one objective..to get money

company esp government give singaporean priority in hiring anyway

caleb_chiang SG

actually the basic problem is practice. I believe if singaporean practice enough and skilled them self enough, it is very easy for them to get a programmer job.

company esp government give singaporean priority in hiring anyway

Well, you are comparing the whole nation with the few FT that is coming to sg to work. There would be those who refused to work OT back in their country as well. Anyway, not all those who had came are as good as you say that they are.

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