relationship between ancestors and the living descendants

peoplew SG

hi all, have some questions here, wonder what are your opinions and buddhism’s position on them.

1) is it true that the state of our ancestors has some influence on the current state of our lives? that is, if our ancestors are experiencing suffering, to what extent does it influence our lives, if at all? for example would the family undergo hardship, poverty, ill health, unhappiness etc and so on?

2) is it a must to ‘pray’ to ancestors in order to have a smooth sailing life?

3) Do we have to seek blessings from our ancestors first, before seeking blessings from bodhisattvas? If ancestors are not at peace, we also won’t be at peace. Is this true?

4) Do ancestors’ tablets and graves have to be taken care of in order for future descendants to live in peace?

Thanks all.

homer28 SG

If your ancestor is suffering in hell, the descendant life won;t be too good. A monk once told me to pay respect to my ancestor first before praying to anything else.

父母恩情重如山佛陀細說話從前
如是我聞千真事因緣殊勝在祇園
舍衛國裡比丘具菩薩三萬又八千
世尊領眾向南行忽見枯骨曝路邊
爾時如來心戚然五體禮拜甚恭謙
阿難合掌問佛言禮拜枯骨為那般
佛告阿難應諦聽分別為你說分明
枯骨因緣溯前世或是多生父母親
父為子女苦營生勞心勞力兩霜鬢
養兒育女慈母心一生茹苦又含辛

BareAwareness SG

The Buddhist position is that we have all been through countless rebirth since beginningless time. Among these countless rebirth, all sentient beings have been our parents at least once in previous lives. The cockroach/rat/pest that you see was once our parent in previous live. We are just ignorant to not see it. Or we refused to acknowledge it.

From this perspective, every sentient beings is your ancestor. How you treat all other sentient beings is how you will treat your ancestor.

This may not have directly answered your query. But it has planted a perspective in your doubts. It is only whether you want to accept it. If you accept it, you will know what to do. Smile

An Eternal Now SG

1) each of you walk your own paths, their suffering and karma is their own path and does not hinder you.

2) no. buddhists (as opposed to ming jian xing yang or chinese ancestor worship, which is not buddhism) do not worship or pray to ancestors, however we can bow in respect to our ancestors just like we can (should) respect our elders. unless your elder/ancestor is a very evil person like hitler etc, then it is different story

3) not true. first of all you do not know where you ancestor has been reborn to. in buddhism there are six realms of samsara in which all unenlightened/unliberated beings are reborn according to their karma after death. only enlightened + liberated beings can escape such a cycle.

the six realms of rebirth are:

(three lower realms:)

hell, animal, ghost

(three higher realms:)

asura, human, deva (celestial beings/heaven)

Those with wholesome karmas can be reborn human and deva realm, those with unwholesome karmas are usually reborn in lower realms. Now if your ancestors are not at peace, it generally means they have been reborn in lower realms - hell or ghost or animal realm. If they have ended up in such states of suffering, how can they bring you blessings and happiness? They themselves lack blessing and happiness. On the other hand even if they are suffering in their next lives, how can their suffering affect your current life? They are experiencing the effects of their own individual karmas, they will not affect your life. You have your own life and karma to live... and you are making your own life and karma (which can ripen in the future) as you live. Each person is the heir of their own deeds/karma and the results are only to be experienced by that person, not by any others.

Even if they are reborn in deva realm, there is not much they can do about us because we have our own life and karmas to experience. We cannot expect that devas be able to prevent us from getting old, getting sick and dying - it is just a truth of life. They cannot stop suffering from happening and they cannot prevent our karmas from ripening, because karma is a natural law. Those celestial beings themselves cannot escape the effects of karma.

Even devas themselves are not free from suffering, birth, ageing and death - they die after a very long lifespan of enjoyment, and are then reborn - perhaps somewhere else, perhaps even in the lower realms depending on their karma. Being reborn in a heavenly realm is certainly better than being reborn in the three lower realms, that is why it is important that we avoid unwholesome deeds/karmas and keep the five precepts, do the ten wholesome deeds etc - which is the cause of favourable rebirths. However this is still not the ultimate. Even deva realm or rebirth in heaven is not the ultimate aim of a Buddhist, because they are temporary births, are subject to death and passing away. There is no true and lasting safety and security in the six realms of samsara.

We (Buddhists) seek to be liberated from samsara, from suffering, from mental afflictions of craving, aggression/anger and delusion. We seek to be free from all sufferings and attachments... to find the ultimate bliss and peace of Nirvana.

That is only possible by learning and practising the Dharma. And that is the ultimate blessing that no one can give you but you yourself, by learning and practising the Dharma. Only you yourself can find yourself the ultimate happiness. The state of enlightenment is greatly achievable and has been achieved by countless practitioners of past and present.

This isn't bestowed upon us by anyone - by any external ancestor, gods, or even by Buddha. It is only by taking refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma (teachings), the Sangha (community of dharma practitioners) and practicing the teachings with our own effort can we hope to achieve this. We have roamed in the six realms without beginning for countless lifetimes, it is the greatest blessing to encounter the Dharma and be greatly benefitted from it, it is the greatest and most rare opportunity to attain this wisdom and liberation.

4) Just do what you need to do regarding it respectfully and sincerely. Without them and what the have done for our family, we would not be around. Our precious life is born because of our parents and ancestors. So it is important is to be respectful and grateful to our ancestors. But not to be superstitious about them.

An Eternal Now SG

p.s. those who practice the Buddha's teachings, those that follow the five precepts, the ten wholesome deeds, and not only that - they study the dharma teachings, they practice meditation and the noble eightfold path according to Buddha's teachings, such people avoid accumulating demerits/bad karma, develope great wisdom, can find true happiness and liberation/freedom from all distress in the here and now and in future lives to come. They can even escape the cycle of samsara.

Five Precepts

Ten wholesome actions:

1. Abstaining from killing living beings

2. Abstaining from stealing

3. Abstaining from sexual misconduct

4. Abstaining from false speech

5. Abstaining from malicious speech

6. Abstaining from harsh speech

7. Abstaining from gossip

8. Abstaining from coveting

9. Abstaining from ill-will

10. Possessing Right Understanding of the Dhamma

(from Majjhima Nikaya 78)

sinweiy SG

ancestor worshipping is under worldly dharma(世间法）rather than 出世间法. i had some folk taoism and even fengshui knowledge. my uncle is well practiced folk taoist, he do ancestor worshipping and very devoted too. and his business is indeed very good. even fengshui teaching stress on a good ancestor burial, when they are buried in a good location, u will also be blessed with "smooth sailing". the stats are there, can't deny. it's something like Liaofan 4 lessons. his life was predicted accurately, yet destiny can be changed by one's meritorious wholesome deeds. so depends whether u still want to remain in the "world"世间 or leave the world出世间. see through life(kan po hong cheng 看破红尘) or not is not something that's "ready" for each and everyone of us.

2009novice SG

Hi Peoplew,

i think none of the questions are related to Buddhism... but i think chant 地藏菩萨本愿经 helps to solve the problems... remember to dedicate merits to all sentient beings

Aik TC SG

hi all, have some questions here, wonder what are your opinions and buddhism’s position on them.

2) is it a must to ‘pray’ to ancestors in order to have a smooth sailing life?

3) Do we have to seek blessings from our ancestors first, before seeking blessings from bodhisattvas? If ancestors are not at peace, we also won’t be at peace. Is this true?

4) Do ancestors’ tablets and graves have to be taken care of in order for future descendants to live in peace?

Thanks all.

Your questions are basically linked to the very important Asian value of ‘Filial Piety’ prominent traditional and cultural values of the Chinese, Korean and the Japanese. Sadly these values have lost a great deal of its importance in the current modern context. Your questions raised are also relevant to the Buddhist subject of the 'Transference of Merit'.

Mahayana Sutra such as the Ullambana Sutra and the Sutra of Great Vows of Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva which lay great emphasis on the subject of filial piety would have play a big part and influence on how such beliefs and practices as you have raised above come about. In the Theravada tradition, you will find many Suttas on the subject of the transference of Merits mostly on how individual can benefit from performing good deeds. However, in the Khp 7. Tirokudda Kanda Sutta one do find verses on offering to deceased person. I believe rituals are also performed with the following beautiful recitation from this Sutta.

'As river when full must flow and reach and fill the distant main, so indeed what is given here will reach and bless the spirits there. As water poured on mountain top must soon descend and fill the plain, so indeed what is given here will reach and bless the spirits there'.

In my opinion, practice what one feel comfortable with as long as it does not take over and consume one’s life or do harm to others. After all, it is all about our parents and ancestors.