Basic buddhist concepts analysed in a Christian website

last SG · 2012-12-12T09:15:01+00:00

Re the flag and the wind, I believe the answer has got to do with the mind, but this is not the proper answer to give at all. It is again more like playing m...

troublemaker2005 SG

While the meaning of a word may change over time due to usage, it only means there are more than one meaning to the word depending on the context. Which is why a dictionary always have a few entries for each word. But the word universe cannot mean a multiverse, it's incoherent and contradictory. Really, you need to understand that this agenda to prove the existence of multiverses is to steer people away from the notion that this universe is uniquely designed for life. People do not want there to be purposeful design in the universe, so positing the existence of billions of multiverses would give people (mainly those who do not want there to be a God) the comfort that one of these billions must be suitable for life, and that is us. It's philosophy at work here, not science. It is purely hypothetical and mathematical with no empirical evidence. It is the arbitrary multiplying of probabilistic resources to make the impossible or improbable more probable. Nothing conclusive has been found, but people are still looking for it, I'd say it is wishful thinking.

See http://www.livescience.com/15530-multiverse-universe-eternal-inflation-test.html

what, dont pichar your own lobang leh!

BroInChrist SG

what, dont pichar your own lobang leh!

How so? Explain please.

troublemaker2005 SG

and your understanding is finite?

his long winded chain and loops of english words is reall infinte.

in the practical electronics and progamin terms. infinte senseless loop of instructions causes response failure.

that is why your computer - hangs.

troublemaker2005 SG

How so? Explain please.

சத்தியமா நீ எனக்கு தேவயே இல்ல
ஹேய் பத்து நாள் சரக்கடிச்சும் போதை இல்ல
உலகம் புரிஞ்சு டவுசர் கிழிஞ்சு
இனி பிச்சிக்குர என் கிட்ட தான் ஒன்னும் இல்ல
(சத்தியமா)

நான் சேத்த சங்கிருக்கு போகேடுல தாம் இருக்கு
உசுர விட்டு என்ன இருக்கு டென்ஷன் ஆவாத
கீழ மண் இருக்கு வானத்துல சன் இருக்கு
இன்னகி தான் முக்கியம் தான் அழுது சாவாத

ஹேய்... ஏன்டி இங்க வந்தா
ஹேய்... ஏன்டி என்ன கொன்ன
ஹேய்... ஏன்டி இங்க வந்தா
ஹேய்... ஏன்டி என்ன கொன்ன

என்ன கொன்ன

ஏ...ஓலை எல்லாம் பின்னி பின்னி கோட்ட ஒன்னு நான் கட்டினேன்
ராஜா நான் தாண்டி ராணி நீ தாண்

ஏ...ரா பகலா வேல செஞ்சி
காசு ஏல்லா நா கொட்டினா எல்லா வீனாடி
லூசு நானடி

ஏ... உள்ளுக்குள்ள ஒன்னும் இல்ல சாதியமா நீ தான் புள்ள
ராசாதி... கம்பா கம்பா கம்பா கம்பா கம்பா
(ஹேய்)

ஹேய்... ஏன்டி இங்க வந்தா
ஹேய்... ஏன்டி என்ன கொன்ன

யே... காதுல பறக்கும் பஞ்சு
அட காதலில் வெடிக்கும் நெஞ்சு
பொண்ணுக மனச நஞ்சு
மொத்தம் எத்தனை ரவுன்டுடா அஞ்சு

ஆ... மாப்புள்ள பாடுர ராகம்
அத டக்குனு திட்டிடும் சோகம்
கண்ணுல என்னடா மோசம்
அது சட்டுனு முடியும் தாகம்
(நான் சேத்த)

ஹேய்... ஏன்டி இங்க வந்தா
ஹேய்... ஏன்டி என்ன கொன்ன
ஹேய்... ஏன்டி இங்க வந்தா
ஹேய்... ஏன்டி என்ன கொன்ன

ஹேய்... ஏன்டி இங்க வந்தா
ஹேய்... ஏன்டி என்ன கொன்ன

[imdestinyz] SG

all ur answers i see had always being in the context of Bible/Creation, and it also make u want to hear answers that are more in the context of Bible. But while mine is in context of Buddhism. Buddhism talks about Continuum/Change.

sometimes, it's quite far-fetched to say a person did an act (as in died at the cross) and this act had "paid" for our sins. so it can be any kind of act like even traveling around the world by foot, or climb the highest mountain, etc?. and that act had said to "finish" another act(of payment). a bit magical to me.

i have got to agree on that... to understand another religion, we should look at things in their context rather than look at buddhism in the christian context. Such things defeats and obstructs learning.

Spnw07 SG

I totally agree with such line of thoughts. So when I ask questions on Christianity, I take care not to compare and judge fundamental concepts from a Buddhist perspective , but merely to understand those teachings as they are and pose questions that relate more to how those teachings are being practised in daily life.

[imdestinyz] SG

it is worst when we impose our religious thoughts onto another religion

BroInChrist SG

I think by now you would have appreciate the fact that both Christianity and Buddhism are worldviews. I see the world through the Bible, you see the world through the Sutras. These are the glasses through which we view the world. Both glasses can't be equally right or true at the same time in the same sense. Either both are wrong or only one is right.

Just because an act can accomplish so much, and so sound "magical" to you, does not invalidate it. That would be an appeal to personal incredulity which is also a fallacious form of argument from ignorance.

BroInChrist SG

Buddha is truely omniscient, but omnipotent need more explaination, and clarification due to karma. Though Buddha is the highest enlightened beings with unconceiveable spiritual power, he is unable to do the following:

1. to eliminate or change the karmic retribution
2. to cross over those who reject Buddhism
3. to cross over the entire sentient beings in the Dharma Realms

Buddha attained Buddhahood the 8000 times stated in Lotus Sutra. if Buddha said that one can be lost again after Buddhahood, then no one will want to become Buddha.

universe is not eternal? then after heaven, it become eternal? another magical saying. if everything happen in a loop or cycle, then there's no issue.

have u imagine living eternally and what would it take to live eternally? would it be bore after some very long time? that's when change/freshness is helpful in an eternal living.

where Satan come from? seems like there's always discrimination in Bible. but in Buddhism we are to get rid of discrimination aka dualism in the end.

I wonder if your understanding of omniscient is the same as mine? Omniscient means all-knowing i.e. nothing can ever occur to such a being, no new information or new knowledge can be gained. It would seems that your idea of Buddha is equivalent of the theistic God. But I don't think Buddha claimed to be some sort of divine being or deity.

How did Buddha attained Buddhahood 8000 times? He "lost" it 7999 times? Please clarify.

The universe we live in is certainly not eternal, this is a fact that cannot be denied. But the new creation is also not eternal, but it can be forever. Something can last forever without being eternally existing. If everything happen in a loop or cycle, there is the issue of how it can be so. No, I have never experienced eternity, so neither me nor you can say anything about it being boring or not. One can also say that Nirvana is boring, but on what basis?

Satan is a creation o God, a fallen angel. Discrimination is not wrong in itself. Discrimination involves making judgement, and making judgement is necessary in life, and not all jugement is wrong. You cannot live without making judgement. If you do not discriminate then you see no difference between Hitler and Mother Teresa. I don't think you agree to that. Buddhism rejects dualism, but it must be first be shown that dualism is a wrong worldview.

BroInChrist SG

I also agree on this. One looks at what Buddhism itself teaches about an issue, and whether it coheres with itself and with what we know. And then one can also explain how Christianity looks at the same issue to point out the different ways in which to explain the same issue.

BroInChrist SG

I think any dialogue between Buddhism and Christianity will inevitably involve some comparison and judgement. So long as it is done with mutual respect I think one should welcome the exchange of views and ideas.

BroInChrist SG

it is worst when we impose our religious thoughts onto another religion

I agree. But usually I will point out what is wrong with it. For example, I think it is very wrong to impose the view that Jesus is just another Bodhisatva. It would be a great distortion of what Jesus taught and how He viewed Himself. It would be wrong to take the Bible and just give it a Buddhist makeover just as it is wrong to baptise Buddhism with a Christian washover.

[imdestinyz] SG

and it is just as wrong, to impose god and the call for finding truths on the buddhism beliefs where they do not advocate finding the truth. It is also wrong to insist that only the christian god is the one and only true god to the buddhist(where to them even the prescence of god is questionable)

My take, you are pointing out in a biased manner. For objective's sake, point out whatever that could be wrong from both sides. Even though you might find nothing wrong with christianity, others have. Respecting others in a discussion involves broad mindedness especially in religious discussion. If we are not open to the ideas of the other religions, but we are only around to prove them wrong? whats the point of discussing.

My take and my question to you, honestly ask yourself, are you here to prove your religion a true religion or others false, or are you here really to learn.?

sinweiy SG

How did Buddha attained Buddhahood 8000 times? He "lost" it 7999 times? Please clarify.

actually, ultimately, Hitler and Mother Teresa has no different in Buddhism from the pov of Buddhanature. difference is in their habits/karma from past lifes. 人之初，性本善。性相近，习相远。like i say we don't give life maximum sentence. we know if everything is dual, yes. if all is good, then too good also can become bad. to have some bad, teaches one to keep away from it. Hitler had actually "teach" people not to follow his foot step. that's a merit in itself.

Buddha attained Buddhahood 8000 times, as the body is not forever, it gets old and rot. u can see it as changing clothing, when the cloth is unwearable, change a new cloth and continue teaching sentient beings. Fyi, He is still in other world system doing teaching to sentient beings.

no new information or new knowledge can be gained by Buddha too. no, He do not suffer either. u do not suffer from changing cloth. like we said, deity also suffer death.

indeed the "nirvanic" bliss achieved by the arhats/hinayana are "boring" after a very long time. after which they re enter samsara to seek bodhisattvahood or Buddhahood, where they start to help others in samsara. since samsara is never ending, happily helping others in samsara is their nirvanic bliss forever! they are free from karma, yet can still help and be happy forever eternally. in such a changing enviro, no, they wouldn't be bored. that's the real Nirvana!

BroInChrist SG

My take and my question to you, honestly ask yourself, are you here to prove your religion a true religion or others false, or are you here really to learn.?

1. Where do you get the idea that Buddhism does not advocate finding truth? Why else would Buddha then come up with the 4 Noble Truths? And why is it wrong to insist that there is only one true God, even if Buddhists do not believe it and insist that the Christian God does not exist at all?

2. Can Buddhists here point out what's wrong with Buddhism? Can you point out what's wrong with atheism if you are an atheist? I believe I have been very broadminded to engage in dialogue with some equally broadminded Buddhists here. We have interacted with ideas and beliefs on both sides. A discussion may be about winning one side over, or putting ideas on the table to examine.

3. Every honest Christian or honest Buddhist would believe their religion is true and others false. Can Buddhists honestly beleve that Christianity is true? They can't. So your pluralistic idea is just plain wrong. And honestly, whether you believe it or not, I have also learned some things from my Buddhists friends here.

BroInChrist SG

no new information or new knowledge can be gained by Buddha too. no, He do not suffer either. u do not suffer from changing cloth. like we said, deity also suffer death.

1. Hitler and Mother Teresa are certainly no different from the POV that they are humans. But that's not exactly what I am talking about. I am asking if Buddhists hold that the moral character of both these people are no different at all. The issue I also see is that of accumulating positive karma. Does that negate the negative karma? If Hitler killed 6 million Jews, does telling others not to do so negate the fact that he was a genocidal murderer?

2. Attaining Buddhahood 8000 times, I don't quite understand that, wouldn't one time be enough? If you have to come back as a human 8000 times, that would mean that Buddha never did escape Samsara on first try? And since there is no-self in "ultimate truth" sense, how could one still speak of a "he" concerning Buddha which implies he has a self?

3. Interesting, how can Nirvana be boring when there is no self to be bored with in the first place? Exactly "who" is being bored? Again it seems that the idea of "self" comes back up while it is being suppressed and denied.

Nyorai SG

Chirstians themselves must commit trufully & wholeheartedly that God is themselves, means Christians can become God, and infact it is God before common ground can be forward looking.

sinweiy SG

simply put, if u take countless rebirth into consideration, it will be clearer. if u don't, no matter how u see it from a one life pov, it wouldn't make sense to u. that's the diff.

again, if u do not consider Nirvana/samsara to be a place, it will be clearer. pls re-read my post, the "nirvanic" bliss achieved by the hinayana is not the true nirvana. it's a false nirvana recorded in the Mahayana. Nirvana and samsara is on the same side of the coin, flip to one side, the other also flip together. but i think this is too profound for ur understanding, not even junior buddhists can understand this. junior buddhists will first learn that Nirvana and samsara is different. although light and darkness are opposite, but without the latter, the former also cannot exist! Buddhism is very chim!

one thing for sure, Nirvana equal no suffering, no karma.

again your no self understanding had become annihilationism. u keep stuck in annihilationism. Buddhanature IS Impermanence which is neither Eternalism non annihilationism.

六祖慧能曰：“无常者，即佛性也；有常者，即一切善恶诸法分别心也。”

Dogen: Impermanence is Buddha-nature.

Now keep them in mind, when u use "no self" again.

[imdestinyz] SG

winning 1 side over is a debate/argument... putting things on table is called a discussion... and no buddhist did not insist that xtian god exist anot... it just doesnt matter to us. But you dont seem to catch it. To you, when we say it doesn't matter to us, it means evading the question of origins. To us, whether your god exist anot, doesn't matter to us. I believe Mr Zeus have pointed that out.

By pressing an answer for origins/creation onto buddhist whom may not find that it matters, how is that not forcing the idea onto others?

Oh to note, when i look at the teachings, when things dont seem right, i ponder... but when i speak to xtians(not you in particular) they apparently doesnt seem so... they just try to find a explaination that fits them aka their faith.

According to dictionary -

Having a discussion here, doesn't equate to being broad minded isnt it?

Nyorai SG

when some buddhism masters speaks Jesus/God from the perspective of buddhism scripture, and for world peace, it tweets the term God in a more approachable, most kind, lovely, awesomic, same as Buddha / buddhahood. The term God is explained by buddhism masters defining an omnipresenceness neither externally nor internally. When a christians speak God, there is this dualistic, psychological and philosophical flavour and totally succumb to God judgement similar to heaven dieties inferior to king of heaven. And these dieties akin to angels in Holy Bible from the xtians point of view. Doubtful from Jesus point of view and definitely not from God as the latter has no way to show it to any xtians besides through Jesus and buddhism masters.

« Previous Page Next Page »