What is God? What is Buddha?

last SG · 2013-02-24T22:15:17+00:00

1. The cup could just as well be full with you, isn't it? I mean, those allegations about me not listening or not could just as well be applied back to you....

Steveyboy SG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqBMAPAi_0Y

You guys have got to watch this incredible and passionate teaching by a Buddhist teacher on how to become a better Buddhist, a better Christian and so forth. This teacher is honest, passionate and very practical and yet it is incredibly profound and deep. Please listen to it in full and share what you think about it.

BroInChrist SG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqBMAPAi_0Y

I watched it. The good take home point was that many people have used religion as a "give me" thing rather than a "change me" thing. In Christendom this would characterise the Prosperity Gospel preached by some of the big churches.

I do take issue with the point he made about the main difference between Buddhism and monotheistic religions. He said that monotheistic religions is about accept God and everything is well whereas Buddhism is about taking responsibility for one's actions, implying that in monotheistic religions individual responsibility is shirked.

I will not comment much on Judaism and Islam, but speak from a Christian point of view. Christianity is about acknowledging that one is a sinner before God just like Buddhism is about recognising that one has a huge karmic debt that requires untold lifetimes to pay. The difference is that Christianity teaches that our sins cannot be atoned by any merit or good works on our part. No amount of good works can cover the sins that we do. God demands absolute holiness and moral perfection because God is perfect and holy. Christianity is about recognising our helplessness and receiving the free gift of eternal life offered by Christ who was sinless and thus qualified to die for us and to take away our sins. If we are to take responsibility for our sins it will mean a one way ticket to hell. The analogy would be that we are all fallen into a deep well and broken our legs and hands and cannot climb out of it. The only way is for someone to come down by a rope to take us up. The Bible does not teach that good works are not needed. The Bible only teach that good works cannot merit salvation, but that good works follow from salvation. A true living faith is one that is expressed in good works. Faith without works is dead.

The Bible also does not teach that accepting God marks the end of all problems. Had the monk read the Bible he would know that Christ's followers just had a new set of problems! They were persecuted and killed for their belief in Christ. Believers still fall sick and die. Nothing has changed physically except their spiritual standing before God.

Steveyboy SG

Well, I think we both have misconceptions about each other's faith. In Buddhism, 'good works' do not atone for any sins but generate the altruistic mind that only thinks of me, myself and I. It is the selfish mind that creates suffering. On the other hand, I think there's widespread belief that in Christianity, when one accept God, everything is alright. I hear that all the time when I was still a Christian.

In fact, there's always this argument of which church is the true church of God. Perhaps, I was wrong but you cannot fault Tsem Rinpoche for thinking that really. It is really public perception based on a track record of conversion. When Christians convert others, they always say that they have to accept God. Am I right? Anyway, that's really not the point of the talk, it is actually about practicing the real essence of whatever religion you are in.

2009novice SG

During my pri and sec days, my school teachers and pastors also said that accepting God means we will have everlasting life... i wonder what happens to the bad people after doing evil....

p.s i wasn't a Christian in my pri and sec days ok

BroInChrist SG

I have been a Christian for a long while and NEVER once have I heard that being a Christian and accepting God means everything would be alright. Such an idea is totally at odds with the Bible's teachings. The absurdity of this idea is quickly dispelled by looking around and noting that good and bad comes to the Christian and non-Christian alike.

Steveyboy SG

@BroInChrist :-

If we don't have to accept God and everything will be alright. Why do Christians pray to God? How does God help his believers? If God created us, why can't God help us to solve our problems?

BroInChrist SG

@BroInChrist :-

If we don't have to accept God and everything will be alright. Why do Christians pray to God? How does God help his believers? If God created us, why can't God help us to solve our problems?

You may have misunderstood. I am rebutting the false notion that acceptance of God means everything will be alright. The only thing that is made right is one's relationship with God. The only time when everything will be alright is when Jesus comes back to restore all things. Again, God is no genie in the box to solve our problems. Our problem is sin, which God has already solved on the cross.

Steveyboy SG

Happy Chinese New Year!

Hmmm ok. Our discussions always seemed to go around in circles. If you said that our problem is sin, how did God solve our problems on the cross? Solving it would mean that there's no more sin right? This is the part that is vague in Christianity to me. Perhaps, you can help clarify for me.

zeus29 SG

Again, God is no genie in the box to solve our problems. Our problem is sin, which God has already solved on the cross.

Why not solve our problems? Didn't you say salvation ONLY through him? Logically, since "our sins" have been solved, we should be sinless but why are there so much suffering and injustice happening right now? Are we a puppet show?

BroInChrist SG

You need to understand the big picture of salvation presented in the Bible. Furthermore, there is no such teaching in the Bible where once saved we are sinless. You have to deal with what the Bible actually teaches, and not knock down a strawman version of your own making.

zeus29 SG

So what's yiur version of salvation?

Jesus dying on the cross couldn't pay for our sins?

BroInChrist SG

So what's yiur version of salvation?

Jesus dying on the cross couldn't pay for our sins?

On the contrary, His death was to atone for the sins of the whole world. It was done, which was why He could say, "It is finished."

zeus29 SG

On the contrary, His death was to atone for the sins of the whole world. It was done, which was why He could say, "It is finished."

Huh? what's finished?

BroInChrist SG

Huh? what's finished?

The work He came to accomplished. The payment for our sins. Perhaps an analogy would be that I have made payment for all of you to watch an exclusive movie by invitation only and freely offered the tickets to you. But if you want to watch it you have to come get the tickets, or perhaps open the door so that I can deliver over the tickets to you and you make your way to the cinema, make sense? Can you say you earned the right to watch the movie? Nope, you paid nothing for it. Can you say you deserved to watch that movie? Nope, the tickets were offered to everyone. The benefit of the movie was FREELY offered to everyone, but it cost me something because I have to produce the movie and finance the screening of it. So the offer was purely by grace, not because anyone deserved it, but because I choose to give it. There's nothing you can do to buy the ticket or obtain it by any means.

sinweiy SG

that's kind of a good analogy! in Pureland Buddhism, we are like stuck in a mud pool and Amitabha hold out his hand to us. one can either get out by themselves or if we really want to get out faster u can hold his hand and by His great compassionate vow, He will pull us out to safety first.

zeus29 SG

so we're sin-free now?

sinweiy SG

so we're sin-free now?

u didn't understand his analogy?

"But if you want to watch it you have to come get the tickets"

for us Buddhism(not linking so much with PL school), we can work hard and pay for our own ticket! we are not worthless beings.

this form of unfairness, imperialism ideal is unlike the fair, equal, democracy Buddhism.

However, "There's nothing you can do to buy the ticket or obtain it by any means." ..do have it's ground in Pureland Buddhism. :)

zeus29 SG

Since "His death was to atone for the sins of the whole world. It was done, which was why He could say, "It is finished." And "payment for our sins" , do we still have sin or not? If no more, why not transform back to paradise millenias ago?

zeus29 SG

Perhaps an analogy would be that I have made payment for all of you to watch an exclusive movie by invitation only and freely offered the tickets to you. But if you want to watch it you have to come get the tickets, or perhaps open the door so that I can deliver over the tickets to you and you make your way to the cinema, make sense? Can you say you earned the right to watch the movie? Nope, you paid nothing for it. Can you say you deserved to watch that movie? Nope, the tickets were offered to everyone. The benefit of the movie was FREELY offered to everyone, but it cost me something because I have to produce the movie and finance the screening of it. So the offer was purely by grace, not because anyone deserved it, but because I choose to give it. There's nothing you can do to buy the ticket or obtain it by any means.

Since the movie has been paid for all, why the need for ticket? do you mean to say that space is limited and people can't go to the free-for-all movie without the ticke even if they travel all the way to go watch a free-for-all movie? i'm trust you can read between the lines and know what i mean.

Steveyboy SG

Well this is very interesting this thread and I would refrain from making conclusions that will upset any parties. That's why I will revert back to the original teaching which is the fact that all religions, whether it is Buddhism, Christianity and so forth is suppose to transform us. To make us better individuals and kinder too.

Personally, I prefer Buddhism, not because I am a pracititioner alone but because it has a very well-developed understanding of the mind and the development of compassion and wisdom. It is very thorough because the Buddha himself gained full enlightenment and through his state gained full understanding and mastery over his mind. That is why I I take refuge in the 3 Jewels beginning with the Buddha.