http://www.awakeningtothedream.com/forum1/viewtopic.php?p=39167&highlight=#39167
yes... though idea is not 'formed' in awareness... all that appear
are sensations: colours and so on... that these 'sensory patterns'
appear to be any 'thing' is based solely upon what 'ideas' are
associated with the pattern... if the idea of 'snake' is associated
with the pattern... the 'image' seems to be that of a 'snake'... if
the idea of 'rope' is associated with the same image... it appears
to be a 'rope'... though of course the 'idea' itself is not seen...
and all that appears is the image...
that the image appears to be the 'thing' (the idea known)... is
'illusion'...
all that is seen are colours (whatever they are! grin)... and these
'colours' are inseparable from the seeing of them... there is no
distance between seeing and colours... all distance is
'apparent'... based in 'idea'...
all 'subjects' and 'objects' exist in 'idea' only...
as seeing and colour are one (inseparable) it is impossible to say
that 'seeing' is the ultimate subject and 'colours' the ultimate
object... for without colour there is nothing to be seen and
without seeing nothing can be seen...
same for all the senses/sensations
as for idea... how could an idea 'be', that was not known... and
without any idea to know... how could 'knowing' be? knowing/idea...
knowing/number/form/meaning... is also one...
together these senses/sensation/knowing/idea are This
Consciousness... manifesting this 'dream of life'... moment to
moment...
and this moment... whatever 'dream' is appearing... is the only
dream in town... there are no other dreams appearing in any other
'parts' of consciousness... for Consciousness is One...
I am entirely alone...
and yet... what abundance!
Love
...
let's examine these ideas of 'matter' and 'frequencies'...
according to science the world is composed of 'energy/matter'...
which at base is 'unknowing and unfeeling'... until it is
aggregated as 'brains'...
but how do brains become conscious?
how do the 'unconscious energy flows' inside the brain become
magically transformed into 'consciousness'... colours seen and
sounds heard and feelings felt and flavours tasted and odours
smelled and ideas known?...
when, according to science, the only 'things' inside the head are
'dead atoms and molecules'...
and how do these 'unconscious atoms' create exact images of all the
'things' that are said to exist 'outside the head'...
according to science... light is invisible... it is simply a
'photon' without any mass at all (impossible to see)...
when the photon strikes the retina it is absorbed...
at which point the energy ceases to be 'light'...
instead, it is transformed into electro-chemical energy that is
transmitted along the optic nerve (which is opaque)...
as this energy flow moves along the nerve...
there is nothing to see... and no seeing to see it...
until... at the end of the optic nerve... the energy flow finally
reaches the visual cortex... it is there (at the back of the
head... in complete darkness) that science says the energy flow is
'magically' transformed into 'coloured patterns'...
according to science, these coloured pattens are immaterial.. they
have no substance... nor are they formed of 'light'...
they are formed of the "same stuff that all dreams are made
on"
indeed all sensations are immaterial... even the feeling of
'solidity' and 'weight' is immaterial... for, according to science,
all sensations exist solely as 'perceptions' inside the
brain!
more magically... in the instant they appear... these 'colored
patterns' appear to be (for example)... a 'bright day', full of
'things' and 'people moving around... that is they have 'number',
'form' and 'meaning... seeming to be a world of matter and light...
with wide open spaces... blue sky and ocean shores... cities with
sky scrapers... all inside the supposed head!!!
science calls these images 'percepts'... the 'objects of
perception'...
even more magically... there is no separate observer of these
'percepts'... according to science... 'seeing' and the 'image'
(percept) are one!
so how do the 'atoms in a brain' know what to image?
according to science... no atoms in the head can look outside the
head to see what the 'outside world' looks like, or smells like, or
tastes like, or feels like, or sounds like...
according to science, all supposed 'signals' are from the outside
in...
and these 'signals' themselves know nothing of what they are... or
where they have come from... or where they are going... how can
they tell the atoms in the head what to 'image'!!!
at this point 'science' runs into a brick wall...
for no scientist can ever examine the 'percepts' in another
person's head... they cannot even see or feel or taste or smell or
hear of know the supposed 'physical world' directly... indeed no
scientist can even see or sense in any way the 'energy flows' that
are supposed to be the ground of their own perception...
all they can ever see are their own percepts!
on this 'scientific hypothesis'... dead matter is the ground of
being... giving rise to multiple 'living consciousnesses' when it
is aggregated as (human) brains... each of which is magically able
to give to itself sensory (immaterial) images of other material
objects within its proximity... the shape and location and other
attributes of which is conveyed via other 'unknowing particles'
(photons, atoms, molecules)... momentarily creating the impression
of 'consciousness'... which consciousness dissolves when the brain
dissolves...
notice how this is ALL story... and none of it can be tested... for
it is all based on ideas about 'the world'... a 'supposed world'
that is ever beyond the senses and the knowing.
for... on the scientific view... this story (as every story) exists
only as a 'percept'...
look around... all that you now see is... on the view of science...
an image in a supposed head which you can never see or feel or know
in any way... on this view... all that is experienced is
immaterial, insubstantial and ephemeral... wherein the observer and
observed are one...
the other hypothesis is that 'Consciousness' is the ground of
being...
that the appearance of 'dead matter' arises in living
Consciousness... as in a dream...
how wonderful... science says the same as religion...
'observer and observed' are one.
since Consciousness is 'self evident' it requires no other proof...
or explanation...
IT plainly 'is'... no argument... no debate... no 'idea' needed to
'define' or describe IT...
as for science... it remains as valid as ever... in so far as the
'dream world' is concerned... indeed it demonstrates the infinite
depth and expanse and complexity and simplicity and beauty that
is... this 'world story'...
as for which hypothesis is the better... there is an old saying
called 'Occam's razor...
which says that where there are two explanations of equal
possibility... the simplest one that has the least number of
entities is the best... smile
but don't take my word for it...
see for your Self... smile
Love
...
http://www.awakeningtothedream.com/forum1/viewtopic.php?p=39066&highlight=#39066
what appears are colours and other sensations... these are no
'things' at all...
every 'thing'... is only its 'name' and 'form'... 'ideas'...
known... without substance...
a 'thing' which is 'unidentified'... is known by the name
'thing'...
lest it is 'named'... it is no 'thing' at all...
the 'whole world'... every 'universe'... exists in 'idea'
only...
all ideas are 'self referential'... All known as One... One with
this Knowing
everything thought of as existing in the 'material universe' exists
in idea only...
an infinitesimal sliver of the 'known world' appears
instantaneously... in the conjunct of these sensations sensed...
and ideas known... arising now.. in and as this awareness...
apart from this 'sliver of awareness'... in which these words and
this computer and other images appear... there is no 'thing'
apparent at all... any where or any when else... for there is no
'where' but 'here' and no 'when' but 'now'...
any idea that there is a 'world out there'... or a 'room
surrounding me'... or a 'me to be surrounded'... are just that...
ideas...
all ideas are ever known... for idea is inseparable from knowing...
as colour is inseparable from seeing...
but there is no awareness of idea until it is imaged by these
senses...
until the moment it appears...there is no awareness at all of
knowing
'elephant' (the picture or the word... the same idea gives meaning
to both!)... and... as soon as the image appears... awareness of
the idea is immediately re-cognised...
see though... the image is nothing at all 'like' the elephant
known... the 'known elephant' does not have a head bigger than its
body or back legs that are smaller than its front legs!!!
see too that any elephant that appears to be a 'living' elephant is
not 'like' the elephant known... for any apparent elephant appears
in different 'shapes' and 'sizes'... depending on the 'perspective'
from which it is apparently seen...
the known elephant does not change shape... only the image
(appearance) changes
though 'cube' has never been seen... yet it is known: an object
having six sides that are identical in shape and size...
yet see... no such cube is apparent... see that it is impossible to
see all sides of a cube and that any sides seen are different
shapes... which constantly change... as the cube is apparently
rotated...
as it is impossible to see the 'known cube'... so it is impossible
to 'learn' about 'cube' from 'observation'... 'cube' is simply
'known'... as it ever has been...
have a look at the 'objects' now apparent in awareness and see how
they appear to change shape and size as they are apparently viewed
from different angles... though the 'known objects' do not...
that which changes cannot be 'like' that which does not
change...
that which appears to change is the 'image'... that which does not
change is the 'idea'...
for the most part... awareness of 'ideas' arises wordlessly... so
that the 'elephant' is known ('re-cognised') in the instant the
image appears...
notice... as it seems 'I scan a room'... the whole room and objects
in it are re-cognised instantly... 'wordlessly'... as 'familiar'
(known)...
're-cognition' is knowing... and knowing is... knowing
ideas...
without any idea arising of 'what it is'... there is no
're-cognition'... of any 'thing' at all...
the word is not the 'idea'... for different words in every
different language express the same idea... 'dog' in English and
'le chien' in French... same idea... different symbols...
words are simply one image of the 'idea'... other images are those
seen as 'pictures', as well as the images that appear to be 'the
thing itself'...
all 'things' are 'ideas' only... ever known... as One...
Love