cycling through the three points that strike the essence

An Eternal Now SG

Today while re reading paltrul rinpoche’s commentary on the three points that strike the essence and john myhrdin’s commentary I cycled through from I AM (felt as the “actualness” of undeniable non-conceptual pure presence-awareness) to anatta, emptiness, d.o. That deconstructed everything into luminous and momentarily self-releasing, impermanent sensations

There is truly no self in everything that arises and ceases in lightning speed moment to moment according to causes and conditions: which is everything without exception

I was reading it (Golden Letters) on google books then contemplating a little afterwards.

It seems the paltrul rinpoche three points had been very beneficial to me… Previously I gained the insight into the “unsupported, disjoint, insubstantial, bubble-like, groundless and self-releasing” of manifestation shortly after reading it

simpo_ SG

IMO, the Golden Letters is an ancient treasure. Thank goodness it is still around..

simpo_ SG

There are certain aspect of Dzogchen that always puzzle me and thus , i don't quite understand.

That is:

Emotions such as anger are classified as discursive thought. Emotions are allow to arise and dissolve'.

This aspect i don't really understand. And I hope someone can enlighten me on that.

I can understand how conceptual thoughts/memories can arise and liberate. But, to me, emotion is a different matter. To me, emotions signifies that distraction has ALREADY occurred. Emotion such as anger is not an inherent object.. but arises due to a series of causes and effect. Emotion should not arise when 'sense of self' is absent. Emotion depends on self as a center reference to compare and conjure desire.

So... my understanding is that when abiding as awareness, there should not be any emotion. Because emotion is the result of following thoughts and contents and that a dualistic split has already occured.

Hope someone can enlighten me on that.

An Eternal Now SG

I hope Thusness will reply you on this one.. Smile

simpo_ SG

I hope Thusness will reply you on this one.. Smile

Am looking forward too :)

Thusness SG

Hi Simpo,

This is a good question but I am not a Dzogchen practitioner so it may not be the right Dzogchen answer. I will do that after work. :-)

Pegembara SG

Karen Koenig, psychotherapist and author of the Rules of Normal Eating, recently wrote a post about what Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor calls the "90 second emotion rule." The idea is that it takes 90 seconds or less for each emotion to be automatically triggered, surge through the body, and dissipated. Once the emotion (chemical component) is gone physiologically, it then becomes a choice to continue as she puts it the "neurocircuitry" to run or not. In this sense, we become more attuned to the emotion in the current moment versus continuously cruising on autopilot. We become aware to what we are feeling, learning to yes, choose whether to take it, leave it , or change it.

http://betweenlivingandexisting.blogspot.com/2009/08/90-seconds-of-emotion.html

Aik TC SG

There are certain aspect of Dzogchen that always puzzle me and thus , i don't quite understand.

That is:

Emotions such as anger are classified as discursive thought. Emotions are allow to arise and dissolve'.

This aspect i don't really understand. And I hope someone can enlighten me on that.

Hope someone can enlighten me on that.

Emotion in itself is a feeling, a particular individual experience. It becomes dualistic and a discursive thought when one needs to describe such feeling. It can only be interpreted by our intellect and thoughts in general words, names and concepts as it arises. Otherwise, how else can we talk about and discuss with each other the enhancement of such qualities as love and compassion and the letting go or suppression of undesirable ones such as anger and hatred?

If I remember correctly, AEN describe his sense of happiness when he realized anatta. Isn’t that the arising of emotion when the ‘sense of self’ is absent?

Just a personal take.

simpo_ SG

If I remember correctly, AEN describe his sense of happiness when he realized anatta. Isn’t that the arising of emotion when the ‘sense of self’ is absent?

Just a personal take.

Hi Aik TC,

Thanks for the sharing.

simpo_ SG

I just bought 'Vivid Awareness' a few days ago, from Awareness Place. A good book and am gaining certain insights from it.

I think this book is giving a clear explanation to some of my queries.

Aik TC SG

I just bought 'Vivid Awareness' a few days ago, from Awareness Place. A good book and am gaining certain insights from it.

I think this book is giving a clear explanation to some of my queries.

Nice if you can share some of the explanation if it is does not infringe on any copyrights.

simpo_ SG

Nice if you can share some of the explanation if it is does not infringe on any copyrights.

Hi Aik TC,

Seriously, i dun think i am qualified to explain the self-liberation of afflictive emotion. To me, self-liberation is the most advanced stage already. I dun think self-liberation is possible without a certain stability in the realisation of no-self, non-dual, emptiness.

Nevertheless, from what i interprete from the book, when afflictive emotion has arised, distraction indeed has already occured. So the self-liberation of afflictive emotion is most probably the 'method' to resolve affliction and bring oneself back to awareness.

Regards

simpo_ SG

Hi Aik TC,

Regards

Experiences has certain characteristics that one realised from insights. These characteristics are no-selfness, non-duality and emptiness. When afflictive emotion have arised, awareness of no-selfness, non-duality and emptiness are momentarily lost. I understand this as Distraction.

However, even at these moments of distraction, the characteristics are still of no-selfness, non-duality and emptiness. When in distraction, experiences are not realising/feeling these characteristic at that moment. At such times, the experience seems solid... although really it is empty. At such times, there feels a self is experiencing the affliction, although really there is no-self. At such times, there feels as if there is the affliction and the one feeling the affliction, although really there is non-duality.

This is what makes liberation possible ?

Aik TC SG

Hi simpo_

Thanks for sharing. I remember reading somewhere stating that tantric teachings of Vajrayana believes that afflictive emotions have their own sacred power, their own particular intelligence, wisdom, and logic. That the five afflictive emotions of greed, hatred, delusion, pride, and jealousy are in essence five wisdoms. For example the wisdom side of anger is discriminating awareness and that righteous anger can help drive compassionate action to redress injustices in the world and it should not be dismiss, ignore, or repressed.

So these afflictive emotions can actually be transformed into its various forms of wisdoms. No sure which traditions of the Vajrayana practice this form of self liberation.

An Eternal Now SG

The purpose of tantra is also to control, pacify, and finally eradicte afflictions.

Only that they do this by utilizing and transforming them. Its a different approach.

simpo_ SG

Hi simpo_

So these afflictive emotions can actually be transformed into its various forms of wisdoms. No sure which traditions of the Vajrayana practice this form of self liberation.

Hi Aik TC,

Thanks for sharing. As for as i know, self-liberation is taught in Dzogchen and Mahamudra.

But in this life i have never really met any Teachers from such lineage. Most of the teachings are read from books.

Regards

An Eternal Now SG

Niguma:

If you don’t understand that whatever appears is meditation,
What can you achieve by applying an antidote?
Perceptions are not abandoned by discarding them,
But are spontaneously freed when recognizing as illusory

An Eternal Now SG

Hmm... Thusness haven't replied Hope he replies soon!

An Eternal Now SG

Namdrol:

Once you have knowledge of your state (rigpa), and it is concrete, you have no more doubt, then you proceed in the confidence of liberation. That does not mean you are liberated, just you are certain that for you it will happen, based on your knowledge, your rigpa.

So, I guess I agree more with Sonam.

However, until you have firm knowledge (rigpa) of your state free from doubts, then you need to use various methods to reinforce that knowledge (rigpa).

Introduction --> recognition --> confidence --> liberation.

N

............

When you have received direct introduction:

a) you do not have recognition.
b) you have recognition.

If a) proceed to use methods to discover the state of that introduction; then proceed to b.
If b) proceed to removing doubts

c) stabilize that knowledge.

d) continue in that state.

I don't think there is anything controversial about the aforementioned breakdown.

d) continue in that state.