Facing suffering

saggigirl SG

How should I face suffering? Stare at it in the face? And then?

My first urge is to run far away from it. But there's nowhere for me to run.

I read with interest the recent articles on 'There is no you' and the dream reminder that one should seek liberation and not wait till it's too late.

However I cannot help but think: So, even if one gets enlightened, so what? What happens when you have to face tremendous pain, like that of cancer patients? Also, what if you live in a state like a caged bear being milked of its bile daily~ daily~ daily~ for years.

Under such conditions, even if you are enlightened, you still cannot escape suffering. What then? Are you even liberated, as in free?

Btw, I'm really not trying to be cheeky or funny. I'm just saying, it's easy for people with ordinary lives with not too much hardship to say life is suffering (afterall we all do have it to some extent), seek enlightenment and then abide in its bliss.

That's my train of thought, but I really would like to hear others' points of view.

SoulDivine SG

You are a powerful, creative, spiritual being temporarily experiencing the suffering of humanity.

You are aware of the suffering, you feel it, you know it, and to some extent you become it. But never forget that you are much much more than suffering.

If you know the truth, you will understand and know why people are falling sick and dying left and right, and learn to become detach from the dying 3rd density world. This is going to be a global "health crisis" since it is happening all over the world.

I am taught this way-> "Let it be"

*Anyway, this is a good question. I will give a more complete answer in another forum. Give me a few hours.

Dawnfirstlight SG

Face it. The more you resist it, the more suffering it is. Resistance is a kind of suffering itself. So, you are adding more sufferings to what you are already suffering. Watch this meaningful video clip below. Instead of resisting whatever you face, face it calmly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkeZo0Uh2Vs&feature=share

Watch another meaningful video clip below if you have the time. This Ven. mentioned that our conciousness and our body are separate. If you are able to do this, you are able to lighten the pain that our body is suffering. How to prove that our conciousness and our body are separate ? When a person is too old and too weak to do what he wants. Simple thing like lifting a cup of water. This proves that our body and our conciousness are separate. This Ven. can elaborate better. He said it is our body that is suffering and not you who are suffering because actually there's "no I".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZXII02Pqg4

An Eternal Now SG

If you are fully enlightened, then you will stop suffering... but to stop suffering before that is not so easy.

Arhats only experience pain but no mental suffering.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn36/sn36.006.nypo.html

"An untaught worldling, O monks, experiences pleasant feelings, he experiences painful feelings and he experiences neutral feelings. A well-taught noble disciple likewise experiences pleasant, painful and neutral feelings. Now what is the distinction, the diversity, the difference that exists herein between a well-taught noble disciple and an untaught worldling?

"When an untaught worldling is touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. He thus experiences two kinds of feelings, a bodily and a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart and, following the first piercing, he is hit by a second dart. So that person will experience feelings caused by two darts. It is similar with an untaught worldling: when touched by a painful (bodily) feeling, he worries and grieves, he laments, beats his breast, weeps and is distraught. So he experiences two kinds of feeling: a bodily and a mental feeling.

"Having been touched by that painful feeling, he resists (and resents) it. Then in him who so resists (and resents) that painful feeling, an underlying tendency of resistance against that painful feeling comes to underlie (his mind). Under the impact of that painful feeling he then proceeds to enjoy sensual happiness. And why does he do so? An untaught worldling, O monks, does not know of any other escape from painful feelings except the enjoyment of sensual happiness. Then in him who enjoys sensual happiness, an underlying tendency to lust for pleasant feelings comes to underlie (his mind). He does not know, according to facts, the arising and ending of these feelings, nor the gratification, the danger and the escape, connected with these feelings. In him who lacks that knowledge, an underlying tendency to ignorance as to neutral feelings comes to underlie (his mind). When he experiences a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling or a neutral feeling, he feels it as one fettered by it. Such a one, O monks, is called an untaught worldling who is fettered by birth, by old age, by death, by sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. He is fettered by suffering, this I declare.

"But in the case of a well-taught noble disciple, O monks, when he is touched by a painful feeling, he will not worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. It is one kind of feeling he experiences, a bodily one, but not a mental feeling. It is as if a man were pierced by a dart, but was not hit by a second dart following the first one. So this person experiences feelings caused by a single dart only. It is similar with a well-taught noble disciple: when touched by a painful feeling, he will no worry nor grieve and lament, he will not beat his breast and weep, nor will he be distraught. He experiences one single feeling, a bodily one.

"Having been touched by that painful feeling, he does not resist (and resent) it. Hence, in him no underlying tendency of resistance against that painful feeling comes to underlie (his mind). Under the impact of that painful feeling he does not proceed to enjoy sensual happiness. And why not? As a well-taught noble disciple he knows of an escape from painful feelings other than by enjoying sensual happiness. Then in him who does not proceed to enjoy sensual happiness, no underlying tendency to lust for pleasant feelings comes to underlie (his mind). He knows, according to facts, the arising and ending of those feelings, and the gratification, the danger and the escape connected with these feelings. In him who knows thus, no underlying tendency to ignorance as to neutral feelings comes to underlie (his mind). When he experiences a pleasant feeling, a painful feeling or a neutral feeling, he feels it as one who is not fettered by it. Such a one, O monks, is called a well-taught noble disciple who is not fettered by birth, by old age, by death, by sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair. He is not fettered to suffering, this I declare.

"This, O monks, is the distinction, the diversity, the difference that exists between a well-taught noble disciple and an untaught worldling."

realization SG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkeZo0Uh2Vs&feature=share

Thumbs up for the first video clip. It's useful advice for many aspects of life, but wish it could have a voiceover though.

Hope to watch the second Youtube later when I have more time.

realization SG

I think it's never easy even when people tell you 人生短短几十年，一晃眼就过了。 A minute can feel as long as an eternity when you are in discomfort.

The older generation of Buddhists - they mostly practice Buddha recitation - will tell us 多念佛，多求佛，真心忏悔 (keep chanting the Buddha's name, beseech the Buddha and repent sincerely) and things will somehow smoothen out. I can read all the intellectual things I want on Buddhism, ponder the new-fangled ways of putting across Buddhist concepts, but I still dare not close the door on wisdom of the ages. Self Power and Other Power, both are important. I think it depends on individual circumstances which type one relies upon more, but both are important.

sinweiy SG

Thumbs up for the first video clip. It's useful advice for many aspects of life, but wish it could have a voiceover though.

Hope to watch the second Youtube later when I have more time.

yea thumbs up for 梦参老法师

Dharmadhatu SG

Hi Saggigirl,

Suffering is the nature of this samsara. Everyone is in some form of suffering. And more suffering is awaiting them in future. It is only that they don't experience it yet and do not believe in it. One Holiness, Penor Rinpoche, said, if we knew our future and saw all the future sufferings we have to undergo, we would not stop practising now 24 hours... This is because we have already planted alot of causes of suffering in the past, and the law of cause-and-effect never ever fails

Your present suffering is similarly the result of causes you planted in the past before, therefore it would be better to accept it patiently and strive at the same time for enlightenment because you STILL HAVE the ability to do so. The cycle of neverending suffering can only be arrested completely by true realisation.

If you think you are suffering and others are not, that is not true. The fact is everyone is going to just take turns to suffer... it is just a matter of time and conditions ripening... no-one can avoid suffering forever. It is just a fact. Everyone will at least have to face the suffering of death and in the bardos which is a very great suffering. In the future, many people will have the opportunity to suffer much worse fates than you are now, whether in other ripenings of illnesses or old age or lower realm rebirths etc.

The point here is not to feel despair but to feel empowered by your suffering, because now that you have experienced such suffering, you are no longer blind to the realities of life, you know the urgency of preventing future worse sufferings and the urgency of travelling the path to enlightenment.

Fugazzi SG

As long as one is dependent on the external situation and does something/anything and tries to elicit eg happiness or fulfilment one has to contend with this – that which is external to onself is and never can be controlled. Hence the suffering and the degree of suffering varies with one’s perceptions, one’’ ideas of .

As for physical pain it is inevitable whether one is awake or not awake – only the experience differs in degree. Most suffering sadly is an existential disconnect. The former can be reconciled and many do at some point of that experience or even after that. As for the latter, it cannot be fixed from the outside. the outside,like books, masters or organized religion are merely pointers to … asking existential questions is utter waste of time. One is already in it, one can partake of it in all its vagaries and manifestations. It becomes a problem when one adopts a stance eg of i like this, i dont like this.

saggigirl SG

If you are fully enlightened, then you will stop suffering... but to stop suffering before that is not so easy.

Arhats only experience pain but no mental suffering.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn36/sn36.006.nypo.html

"This, O monks, is the distinction, the diversity, the difference that exists between a well-taught noble disciple and an untaught worldling."

So it's all about becoming more and more dispassionate and a step in the right direction is better than none at all ?

An Eternal Now SG

saggigirl, that is absolutely right. The Buddha taught that his entire purpose of teaching is to lead us to dispassion, to release.

He said,

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an08/an08.053.than.html

"As for the qualities of which you may know, 'These qualities lead to dispassion, not to passion; to being unfettered, not to being fettered; to shedding, not to accumulating; to modesty, not to self-aggrandizement; to contentment, not to discontent; to seclusion, not to entanglement; to aroused persistence, not to laziness; to being unburdensome, not to being burdensome': You may categorically hold, 'This is the Dhamma, this is the Vinaya, this is the Teacher's instruction.'"

And how does dispassion arise? Through insight, through insight into the three characteristics, the four noble truths, the empty nature of phenomena.

He teaches:

http://www.vipassana.com/canon/anguttara/an11-1.php

Excerpt

...

"Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of knowledge & vision of things as they actually are? What is its reward?"

"Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of disenchantment? What is its reward?"

"Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward."

"And what is the purpose of dispassion? What is its reward?"

"Dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.

Aik TC SG

Life Isn't Just Suffering

Thanissaro Bhikkhu

.......You've probably heard the rumor that "Life is suffering" is Buddhism's first principle, the Buddha's first noble truth. It's a rumor with good credentials, spread by well-respected academics and Dharma teachers alike, but a rumor nonetheless. The truth about the noble truths is far more interesting. The Buddha taught four truths — not one — about life: There is suffering, there is a cause for suffering, there is an end of suffering, and there is a path of practice that puts an end to suffering. These truths, taken as a whole, are far from pessimistic. They're a practical, problem-solving approach — the way a doctor approaches an illness, or a mechanic a faulty engine. You identify a problem and look for its cause. You then put an end to the problem by eliminating the cause.

What's special about the Buddha's approach is that the problem he attacks is the whole of human suffering, and the solution he offers is something human beings can do for themselves. Just as a doctor with a surefire cure for measles isn't afraid of measles, the Buddha isn't afraid of any aspect of human suffering. And, having experienced a happiness totally unconditional, he's not afraid to point out the suffering and stress inherent in places where most of us would rather not see it — in the conditioned pleasures we cling to. He teaches us not to deny that suffering and stress or to run away from it, but to stand still and face up to it, to examine it carefully. That way — by understanding it — we can ferret out its cause and put an end to it. Totally. How confident can you get?

.......So the first noble truth, simply put, is that clinging is suffering. It's because of clinging that physical pain becomes mental pain. It's because of clinging that aging, illness, and death cause mental distress. The paradox here is that, in clinging to things, we don't trap them or get them under our control. Instead, we trap ourselves. When we realize our captivity, we naturally search for a way out. And this is where it's so important that the first noble truth not say that "Life is suffering." If life were suffering, where would we look for an end to suffering? We'd be left with nothing but death and annihilation. But when the actual truth is that clinging is suffering, we simply have to look for the clinging and eliminate its causes.

This process takes time, though, because we can't simply tell the mind not to cling. It's like a disobedient child: if you force it to let go while you're looking, it'll search for a blind spot where you can't see it, and will start to cling there. In fact, the mind's major blind spot — ignorance — is the prime cause that gives rise to clinging's proximate cause: craving. So, as the fourth noble truth, the Buddha recommends a path of practice to get rid of the blind spot. The path has eight factors: right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration. In a more abbreviated form, the Buddha's term for the practice is "abandoning and developing": abandoning activities that hinder awareness, and developing qualities that expand its clarity and range.

The abandoning — in which you refrain from unskillful thoughts, words, and deeds inspired by craving — is obviously an antidote to clinging. The developing, though, plays a more paradoxical role, for you have to hold to the skillful qualities of mindfulness, concentration, and discernment that foster awareness until they're fully mature. Only then can you let them go. It's like climbing a ladder to get on a roof: you grab hold of a higher rung so that you can let go of a lower rung, and then grab onto a rung still higher. As the rungs get further off the ground, your view gets more expansive and you can see precisely where the mind's clingings are. You get a sharper sense of which parts of experience belong to which noble truth and what should be done with them: the parts that are suffering should be comprehended; the parts that cause suffering should be abandoned; the parts that form the path to the end of suffering should be further developed; and the parts that belong to the end of suffering should be verified. This helps you get higher and higher on the ladder until you find yourself securely on the roof. That's when you can finally let go of the ladder and be totally free.

........Are we clinging in ways that serve only to continue the round of suffering, or are we learning to hold to the ladder-like qualities that will eliminate craving and ignorance so that we can grow up and not have to cling. If we negotiate life armed with all four noble truths, realizing that life contains both suffering and an end to suffering, there's hope: hope that we'll be able to sort out which parts of life belong to which truth; hope that someday, in this life, we'll discover the brightness at the point where we can agree with the Buddha, "Oh. Yes. This is the end of suffering and stress."

Weychin SG

Living through daily chores of living without paying to much due to aversion or attraction. Do not anticipate or place too much expectations on the outcome of your effort. Also to place too much of the pleasant or unpleasant experiences you had before to present or future experiences. If unhappiness arises, accept the sensation of unhappiness and knowingly and let it pass, and it will pass. If you sense happy or pleasant sensations, acknowledge it and let it pass, for you know that sensation of good feeling will also pass. These are mere experiences we continually experience, and will continually pass!

Weychin SG

Act with full accountability, do your utmost ability and sincerity, then you will have no regrets owing to the fact you will find no fault that you have not given your best!

2009novice SG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkeZo0Uh2Vs&feature=share

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZXII02Pqg4

the 1st video shows alot 大智慧

Dharmadhatu SG

Garchen Rinpoche:

There is no greater negativity than committing suicide--one creates a very powerful cause of intense suffering by taking one's own life.

You must understand that all suffering has its seat in the self-grasping mind. When trying to exchange your body, it does not result in exchanging your mind--you cannot escape from your mind. Committing suicide leads to even greater suffering than you experience now; you will not be able to just erase your suffering.

You have your karma and your lifespan. You must allow your karma to play itself out and not bring an end to your life prematurely. Moreover, by killing one's body you are killing billions of life-forms living within your body, and you acquire the negative karma of that.

You should rather transform your mind. When you are suffering, practice tonglen; take on the suffering of others and think that by you experiencing suffering they will be released. All suffering is temporary; so is conditional happiness. The mind must gain stability in being unmoved by impermanent circumstances. It is never too late to begin to practice. We have wandered in samsara since beginningless time, and at some point we must begin to practice.

Don't worry about how much time you have wasted for eons in the past--begin to practice now and you will die free of regrets. What you do from now on is more important. When you feel sick in your body, send your mind out into space; do not fixate on the body. Separate the mind from the body and rest in space. You can also visualize Tara in space and recite her mantra. I personally have many pains, but if I do not fixate on them, if I send my mind out into space and meditate, I do not feel them. Only when I begin to think about them do I again feel the pain.

You should moreover think that your own suffering is quite small compared to the suffering of so many other sentient beings. For example, I was kept in prison for twenty years, and you could call this a problem, but not one time did I think about when I would be released. I just practiced Tara day by day, and let alone not thinking of suicide, I was actually quite happy in my mind. If you want to become free of suffering, you must change your mind, not your body. Pray to Tara all the time and recite her mantra, so you never forget about her. Then I can also help you, as I am always practicing Tara. Whenever you experience pain and difficulty, think of Tara single-pointedly.

Dawnfirstlight SG

Hi Weychin, nice to see you here again. You have not been here for a long time.

Weychin SG

Hi Weychin, nice to see you here again. You have not been here for a long time.

A nice hello to you too,Dawnfirstlight! Hope things are going well with you! Have not been using a computer, but relying on handphone to browse, thus not particularly inclined to post!

Dharmadhatu SG

Garchen Rinpoche

Lets take the example of sickness, when you are afflicted with sickness. One thingyou can do is the normal way just to suffer and gloom and doom and feel bad about it, thatwould not benefit you, if it benefited you of course you should do it. But the mostbeneficial thing would be when you are suffering from sickness use that sickness in a positive way so that you will gain something from it. You just think that having to go through this sickness, you say to yourself and pray and feel that you are taking the burden of sickness being suffered and will be suffered by all sentient beings. Because it will be difficult for us to actually cut ourselves into pieces and give away our body parts as charity,we are not ready for that, but at least when you are sick we can generate and have that kind of attitude. When you instead of going about moaning and groaning about the sickness, can learn to make yourself happy. And even go to the extent of thinking profusely that you are sick now, that you are paying all the karmic debts and made this sickness kind of take the burden of other sentient beings, which are likely to go through such sickness. That will have two benefits, one you will be a happier person because if you are going to physically suffer,well we might as well to choose to suffer in a happy way. At the same time you will be accumulating merits because of that. That is how you turn a very unfortunate circumstance into something positive