Techniques to reduce the notion of self

allkosong SG

Hello all,

The concept of anatta (no-self) in Buddhism is very profound. Whilst I work to understand it better through meditation, I was wondering whether there are any practical techniques/"tricks" I can use in everyday life which can help reduce my strong notion of self.

Thank you.

simpo_ SG

Hi Allkosong,

Glad you see truth in the concept of no-self.

The following are methods to be no-self... that i use.

Basically, just experience things as if you never existed! Note... this is not a nothingness practice... as in no-thoughts. Instead, you go along life as if you never exist as a person, an individual. To start with, think that 'your name' does not exist.

To get your mind to be convinced... if you are the intellectual type... you can look into the theory of the holographic universe. The theory of the holographic universe actually is in line with the experience of no-self and even moreso the experience of Emptiness.

Good luck !!

realization SG

Hi Allkosong,

Glad you see truth in the concept of no-self.

The following are methods to be no-self... that i use.

Good luck !!

This? :)

The Universe as a Hologram - http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html

simpo_ SG

This? :)

The Universe as a Hologram - http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html

Yes, good article.

Thanks :)

Bio-Hawk SG

I don't get this.basically budhism is saying reduce desire and ego. In workplace if you do this all will walk over you.Same in life.

simpo_ SG

I don't get this.basically budhism is saying reduce desire and ego. In workplace if you do this all will walk over you.Same in life.

Nice observation...

This is because in this world you are dealing with samsara beings... almost all others are not practicing and are in ignorance. They will continue to reborn again and again.

It depends on how determined you are to break this rounds and rounds of suffering.

At one point, one have to decide:

1. Come back to this rebirthing cycle again and again, or

2. bite the bullet and continue with the spiritual practice until the rebirth ends.

From this, you can clearly see that spiritual practice is not easy.

BTW, if you can see into some of the past lives, you may be able to see how painful and terrible life can get...

However, if your life is currently happy and good and you do not believe in rebirth/reincarnation, then most probably you will not be interested in finding any solution.

Jui SG

Reducing desire and ego has hardly any relation to turning yourself into a doormat. You can be egoless-ish and still stand up for your beliefs, and rejecting what is disagreeable.

Amitayus48 SG

Yes, good article.

Thanks :)

awesome article。。。and it goes delightful with picture. as for technique。。。格物至知, 诚意正心。。。listen to dharma and practice meditation. why listen dharma is important. because 观音菩萨耳根圆通章stated that 阎浮提众生, 耳根最利。閻浮提眾生雖六根具足，然以耳根最銳利，聞法易入，能圓通無上道，故有「一根」之稱。 <二>謂某一種根性。即受同一種教之根器。 … 出楞严经］一根，即耳根也。盖由此方之人，耳根最利，闻法易入。佛在经上讲，阎浮提众生耳根最利，看懂了，难，不容易，听就容易多了，耳根利。但是这一生当中没有缘分遇到善知识，没有人给我们把这些事情讲清楚、讲明白，所以我们根本就不懂。孝亲尊师这四个字认识，怎么讲法不知道，那你怎么会去做到？我们在《地藏经》上讲过，实在讲每一次讲经，遇到这些经文我们都细讲，希望我们同学们多多的薰习，然后才能真正在生活行持上提高自己的警觉，勉励自己认真努力修学。awesome.

geis SG

I don't get this.basically budhism is saying reduce desire and ego. In workplace if you do this all will walk over you.Same in life.

from my personal experience, practicing the Buddha's teachings help balance life in the work place.

when one realizes the grip of desire and how desires influences the mind, one can be more adept in making good decisions with regards to work. Once we see through the workings of the false sense of ego at work, we can weigh opinions from ourselfs and others more neutrally, and act with the best intentions.

at the same time, negative experiences at work are seen in a different light, and can be more easily converted to learnings and opportunities.

By all means, it is still important for us to strive hard at work, and still set positive goals at work. But one no longer cling on to just desirable outcomes. There's a newfound freedom to keep on striving positively.

As for the other colleagues who are used to take advantage of others, they will have their own lessons.

An Eternal Now SG

Originally posted by Bio-Hawk:

I don't get this.basically budhism is saying reduce desire and ego. In workplace if you do this all will walk over you.Same in life.

Reducing desire and ego has hardly any relation to turning yourself into a doormat. You can be egoless-ish and still stand up for your beliefs, and rejecting what is disagreeable.

Indeed. Action can arise spontaneously according to situation without any sense of self at all. You can even act fierce, without any sense of self at all. Just like an actor can act very angry, but it's actually just for TV show. He does not have real anger. So no-self does not set a limit to the course of action (apart from removing craving, aversion, ignorance, which leads to deluded actions), but it does mean you do not attach yourself to situations because there is no sense of self/Self with its posessiveness to situations (this is happening to ME, 'personal feelings' arise, etc)

I think Simpo's suggestion is very good. I'll post something on Bahiya Sutta later as a complement.

Perhaps i can provide some description of the effects of experiencing no-self, and how actions can arise spontaneously and physically without there being any attachments at all:

...as I can report a gradual emotional transformation or attenuation after the initial insight. In instances where loud sounds would cause fear in the past, such as when a sound so loud that my body jerked forward from a state of sleep automatically as an automatic and spontaneous response, now came with no sense of fear or mental agitation at all – purely a bodily action and experience. Thrill rides appeared scary to my friends, and yet I simply undergo the entire experience without any sense of self, nervousness, fear, bodily contraction, etc - only the pleasant sights and sensations of cool breeze, simply the directness of sensation (in seeing just the seen, in hearing just the heard) without any sense of self, there is also no sense of contraction at all – just wide-open enjoyment of the sensate experience as they are without craving/aversion/clinging/fear. (That fear is largely due to identification, possessiveness, and attachment to the body-mind which when dropped completely leads to a form of fearlessness) When I told my dad about this, he said he knew of such people, and they are (physically) lacking a nerve in their brain that could trigger fear or anxiety even when they sit on a roller coaster ride. To my knowledge this is not true for me as fear and anxiety used to arise – and not rarely. Also, situations that would have led to anger, irritation, have stopped resulting in outbursts of emotions. I do not have much craving or clinging anymore (sensual, sexual, etc) and yet there is still some preference to experience the pleasant, i.e. I still listen to music very often, perhaps partly due to habitual tendencies from the past (though not a very strong craving/clinging, as music or no music doesn’t affect the perfection, aliveness, and wonder of life at any moment, even the ordinary and mundane sound of raindrop, the sound of aircon humming, everything is just alive, wonderful, intense, brilliant, even blissful - so basically I can easily do without music as every moment of aliveness is like music to my senses). Am I free from emotions? I cannot make such claims as latent tendencies are not something immediately obvious under limited stress-conditions (who knows if some very very stressful situation may lead to them arising again), but at least as I can see it, it just doesn’t show up these days, and experience is effortlessly ‘in the seeing just the seen, in the hearing just the heard’ without any sense of a self/Self. Am I free from all unskilful and negative habits? Certainly not, just that there isn’t much of a push/pull (craving or aversion) to experience, and yet unskilful habitual behaviours (in speech, in action) still can surface for me that needs to be worked on, and perhaps without much life wisdom learnt in life (reminder that I’m still 21) I will never be able to perfect them.

An Eternal Now SG

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi, in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Now at that time Bahiya of the Bark-cloth was living in Supparaka by the seashore. He was worshipped, revered, honored, venerated, given homage — a recipient of robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medical requisites for the sick. Then, when he was alone in seclusion, this line of thinking arose to his awareness: "Now, of those who in this world are arahants or have entered the path of arahantship, am I one?"

Then a devata who had once been a blood relative of Bahiya of the Bark-cloth — compassionate, desiring his welfare, knowing with her own awareness the line of thinking that had arisen in his awareness — went to where he was staying and on arrival said to him: "You, Bahiya, are neither an arahant nor have you entered the path of arahantship. You don't even have the practice whereby you would become an arahant or enter the path of arahantship."

"But who, living in this world with its devas, is an arahant or has entered the path to arahantship?"

"Bahiya, there is a city in the northern country named Savatthi. The Blessed One — an arahant, rightly self-awakened — is living there now. He is truly an arahant and he teaches the Dhamma that leads to arahantship. "

Then Bahiya, deeply chastened by the devata, left Supparaka right then and, in the space of one day and night, went all the way to where the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi, in Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. At that time, a large number of monks were doing walking meditation in the open air. He went to them and, on arrival, said, "Where, venerable sirs, is the Blessed One staying — the arahant, right self-awakened? We want to see him."

"He has gone into the town for alms."

Then Bahiya, hurriedly leaving Jeta's Grove and entering Savatthi, saw the Blessed One going for alms in Savatthi — calm, calming, his senses at peace, his mind at peace, tranquil and poised in the ultimate sense, accomplished, trained, guarded, his senses restrained, a Great One (naga). Seeing him, he approached the Blessed One and, on reaching him, threw himself down, with his head at the Blessed One's feet, and said, "Teach me the Dhamma, O Blessed One! Teach me the Dhamma, O One-Well-Gone, that will be for my long-term welfare and bliss."

When this was said, the Blessed One said to him: "This is not the time, Bahiya. We have entered the town for alms."

A second time, Bahiya said to the Blessed One: "But it is hard to know for sure what dangers there may be for the Blessed One's life, or what dangers there may be for mine. Teach me the Dhamma, O Blessed One! Teach me the Dhamma, O One-Well-Gone, that will be for my long-term welfare and bliss."

A second time, the Blessed One said to him: "This is not the time, Bahiya. We have entered the town for alms."

A third time, Bahiya said to the Blessed One: "But it is hard to know for sure what dangers there may be for the Blessed One's life, or what dangers there may be for mine. Teach me the Dhamma, O Blessed One! Teach me the Dhamma, O One-Well-Gone, that will be for my long-term welfare and bliss."

"Then, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in terms of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."

Through hearing this brief explanation of the Dhamma from the Blessed One, the mind of Bahiya of the Bark-cloth right then and there was released from the effluents through lack of clinging/sustenance. Having exhorted Bahiya of the Bark-cloth with this brief explanation of the Dhamma, the Blessed One left.

Now, not long after the Blessed One's departure, Bahiya — attacked by a cow with a calf — lost his life. Then the Blessed One, having gone for alms in Savatthi, after the meal, returning from his alms round with a large number of monks, saw that Bahiya had died. On seeing him, he said to the monks, "Take Bahiya's body and, placing it on a litter and carrying it away, cremate it and build him a memorial. Your companion in the holy life has died."

"As you say, lord," the monks replied. After placing Bahiya's body on a litter, carrying it off, cremating it, and building him a memorial, they went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As they were sitting there, they said to him, "Bahiya's body has been cremated, lord, and his memorial has been built. What is his destination? What is his future state?"

"Monks, Bahiya of the Bark-cloth was wise. He practiced the Dhamma in accordance with the Dhamma and did not pester me with issues related to the Dhamma. Bahiya of the Bark-cloth, monks, is totally unbound."

Then, on realizing the significance of that, the Blessed One on that occasion exclaimed:

Where water, earth, fire, & wind have no footing:

An Eternal Now SG

Hello all,

Thank you.

The Bahiya Sutta worked well for me - by contemplating it in a non-meditative setting, I was able to awaken to what it means.

From my ebook http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/12/my-e-booke-journal.html

If anything, the direct path presented here is more about ‘noticing’ and ‘realizing’ facts of reality that is always already so (even in the most mundane and ordinary of all circumstances in a non-altered state of perception), and this can result in permanent realizations.

As I said earlier, realization has nothing to do with states of concentration - and while its true my mind was very stilled before I realized I AM, I was not in any altered states of perception (just a very still mind) when that eureka moment of realization occurred for me. Furthermore: anatta realization happened to me Oct '10 in *a non-meditative setting*, when I was marching (lol) to the cookhouse in my military uniform and contemplating on the instructions to Bahiya, when I was in basic military training (I'm still in army doing my mandatory national service). No jhanas at all. Before that, an intense and long PCE (pure consciousness experience of the senses) happened when I was dancing in the nightclub in August. That shifted me from I AM to 'non-dual in the foreground practice'

You see, such realizations need not occur in a meditative setting, or in an altered state of perception, as it can occur in the most ordinary, mundane, or funny settings. I remember one zen master was so frustrated with not getting enlightened that he left the monastery, went to a prostitute, and then woke up in the midst of sexual intercourse (of course it would be stupid to follow him as an example as every person's circumstance to awaken is different). And, you never hear about Zen masters awakening in a jhana state, almost always those enlightenment occurred in a setting like "he hears the bamboo pole making that sound, he hears the sound of bell, he sees the cup breaking," and then he got it.

So one of the Zen masters say, “When I heard the temple bell ring, suddenly there was no bell and no I, just the ringing.”

Based on something written a long time ago:

"First I do not see Anatta as merely a freeing from personality sort of experience as you mentioned; I see it as that a self/agent, a doer, a thinker, a watcher, etc, cannot be found apart from the moment to moment flow of manifestation; there is no self apart from arising and passing. A very important point here is that Anatta/No-Self is a Dharma Seal, it is the nature of Reality all the time -- and not merely as a state free from personality, ego or the ‘small self’ or a stage to attain. This means that it does not depend on the level of achievement of a practitioner to experience anatta but Reality has always been Anatta and what is important here is the intuitive insight into it as the nature, characteristic, of phenomenon (dharma seal).

To put further emphasis on the importance of this point, I would like to borrow from the Bahiya Sutta (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.irel.html) that ‘in the seeing, there is just the seen, no seer’, ‘in the hearing, there is just the heard, no hearer’ as an illustration. When a person says that I have gone beyond the experiences from ‘I hear sound’ to a stage of ‘becoming sound’, or from 'I hear sound' to 'just sound' as a stage, he is mistaken. When it is taken to be a stage, it is illusory. For in actual case, there is and always is only sound when hearing; never was there a hearer to begin with. Nothing attained for it is always so. This is the seal of no-self. Therefore to a non dualist, the practice is in understanding the illusionary views of the sense of self and the split. Before the awakening of prajna wisdom, there will always be an unknowing attempt to maintain a purest state of 'presence'. This purest presence is the 'how' of a dualistic mind -- its dualistic attempt to provide a solution due to its lack of clarity of the spontaneous nature of the unconditioned. It is critical to note here that both the doubts/confusions/searches and the solutions that are created for these doubts/confusions/searches actually derive from the same cause -- our karmic propensities of ever seeing things dualistically"

Amitayus48 SG

Very good sutta. buddha is not worry about high grade pple. He is more towards the lowest grade beings.

geis SG

Very good sutta. buddha is not worry about high grade pple. He is more towards the lowest grade beings.

dun think there's any grade other than that conceived by the human mind. the trick of the aggregates creating a deluded mind is the same across all beings.

allkosong SG

Hi Allkosong,

Glad you see truth in the concept of no-self.

The following are methods to be no-self... that i use.

Good luck !!

Thank you, I will try that.

allkosong SG

Nice observation...

This is because in this world you are dealing with samsara beings... almost all others are not practicing and are in ignorance. They will continue to reborn again and again.

It depends on how determined you are to break this rounds and rounds of suffering.

At one point, one have to decide:

1. Come back to this rebirthing cycle again and again, or

2. bite the bullet and continue with the spiritual practice until the rebirth ends.

From this, you can clearly see that spiritual practice is not easy.

BTW, if you can see into some of the past lives, you may be able to see how painful and terrible life can get...

However, if your life is currently happy and good and you do not believe in rebirth/reincarnation, then most probably you will not be interested in finding any solution.

Isn't it contradictory that people blessed with a very comfortable and happy life are actually "cursed" with the lack of interest to study and practise the dharma. Whereas people who have suffered a great deal seek and practise the dharma. Why is that?

Jui SG

If you're having a great dream you'd tend not to want to wake up. Same thing here I guess. If your life is good now, you usually don't want to look for something beyond that, that takes time and effort to achieve.

sinweiy SG

【即空即假即中】
　　天台所立之三觀。見三觀條。
　
　【三觀】　
　１．指天台宗三觀，即空觀、假觀、中觀。空觀是觀諸法緣生無性，當體即空；假觀是觀諸法雖同幻化，但有假相和作用；中觀是觀諸法非空亦非假，亦空亦假之中道實理。修此三觀，能破三惑，證三智，成三德。茲列下表說明。
　
　２．指華嚴宗三觀，即真空觀、理事無礙觀、周遍含容觀。真空觀是觀一切法界的事相，皆以空為性，惟此空不是無的空，乃是真如的理性，超然而離諸相；理事無礙觀是觀真如的理性能生萬法，故萬法也就是真如，猶如水即是波，波也就是水一樣；周遍含容觀是觀諸法互相含攝，重重無盡，不相妨礙，一可攝多，多亦含一，大小互容，舉一全收，具足而相應。
　
　３．指南山三觀，即性空觀、相空觀、唯識觀。性空觀是觀諸法緣生性空；相空觀是觀諸法的相皆空無虛妄；唯識觀是觀諸法唯識所現。４．指慈恩三觀，即有觀、空觀、中觀。有觀是觀依他圓成之二性為有；空觀是觀遍計之一性為空；中觀是觀諸法以遍記性之故，非有，以依他圓成之故，非空，即是非有非空之中道。

Dharmadhatu SG

要修無我，頭一點要學到的是，不管甚麼事情，都必需從別人那一邊來想。也就是說，試圖了解這個事情，他人的想法是甚麼，是如何看待的。因為我們自己的這一邊，我們對自身已很清楚、瞭解了；而他的那一邊，往往是與自己的想法不一樣。若能事事從他人的那一邊來想，時間久了，才有可能從「自己」裡面出來，漸漸達到「無我」的境界。

~Yogi Lin Yutang

To practice non-self, first thing to learn is, whatever the matter , first need to think from other person's point of view. That is to say, first try to understand the matter, what is the other party's thinking and his viewpoint. Because we already understand ourselves thoroughly, but for other party, we usually have a difference in opinion. If can try to think from other party's viewpoint in all matters, after long time, would be able to step out from 'self', slowly progressing to 'non-self' state.

sinweiy SG

ya,

saw the touching life documentry of Garchen Rinpoche, at Suntec theater. http://www.forthebenefitofallbeings.com/about.html
i learned three things, 1) loving kindness, compassion can help one understand emptiness faster. 2) his father taught him to look focus at a far away object when walking toward it and it help in his single pointness. 3) a secret/special meditation: meditate that your mind and other's minds are one. sort of that say think put yourself on other's people's shoe. we are all deeping connected like a net. how i wish we have more of Brahma Net Sutra, as most of it was lost. it's as inconcievable as those One vehicle Sutras, like Hua Yen, Lotus, MahaNirvana Sutra.