A duel on liberation

Lu si na SG

I'm still surprised I got myself into this muddle, but there it goes. I went to the "Ruthless Truth" site (I think people around here have heard of it, they claim to liberate people by giving them instructions on their discussion board) and got myself tangled in a duel there on the subject of liberation. This is what happened:

http://www.ruthlesstruth.com/arena/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1247

If you think it looks like an argument among two clueless people, it's probably because it's an argument among two clueless people. That's why I'd like to have the views of the people here.

By the way, we have agreed that any further discussion on the subject, if it continues, will be on my blog, because it isn't particularly welcome over there. That's also a good place if you'd like to give me any advice and you'd like it to be a bit more private than on this board. My blog is here:

http://always--home.blogspot.com/

An Eternal Now SG

Direct path contemplation works. I myself realized no-self through direct path contemplation ala bahiya sutta style, that was before I even knew ruthlesstruth. Our moderator Thusness also realized through direct path contemplation. If you didn’t know, I’m one of the blue status in their forum, but I am not active there. I had guided and pointed others in other forums to the realization anatta through direct path though. Good luck and happy contemplating.

Yui Hirasawa SG

What’s direct path comtemplation ?

An Eternal Now SG

Will tell you when I book out on friday.

An Eternal Now SG

Gradual path practice is a practice to gradually unveil and experience a truth.

Direct path practice is a direct form of inquiry and contemplation to discover a truth in your immediate experience.

From my e-book:

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2010/12/my-e-booke-journal.html

There are many types of gradual path, just as there are many types of direct path. Gradual paths are any path that 'is like polishing the mirror to reveal the luminosity' while the direct path 'aims for direct realization straight away' as stated in my previous conversation. Gradual path focus on the experience first, the realization happens later. Direct path focus on investigating and getting a direct realization.

For example, Michael Langford's 'Awareness Watching Awareness/Turning Awareness upon itself, to the Pure Presence, to Pure Being' - this is a gradual path leading to I AM.

Self-inquiry, asking 'Before birth, Who am I?' is a direct path leading to I AM.

Vipassana is a gradual path leading to Anatta realization. Whereas, contemplating Bahiya Sutta, Ven Buddhaghosa's verses on Anatta, or Thusness's two stanzas of Anatta, or Ruthless Truth/Ciaran's contemplation on 'There is no you, Look!' are all forms of direct path leading to the realization of Anatta.

Lu si na SG

"Vipassana is a gradual path leading to Anatta realization. Whereas, contemplating Bahiya Sutta, Ven Buddhaghosa's verses on Anatta, or Thusness's two stanzas of Anatta, or Ruthless Truth/Ciaran's contemplation on 'There is no you, Look!' are all forms of direct path leading to the realization of Anatta."

I can understand that, but surely realization of annata isn't the same thing as liberation?

An Eternal Now SG

I can understand that, but surely realization of annata isn't the same thing as liberation?

The initial anatta realization is the attainment of Sotapanna.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sot%C4%81panna

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_enlightenment

The three fetters which the Sotāpanna eradicates are: ^[6]^[7]

There are 7 more fetters to be removed in the following three stages of enlightenment, in total ten fetters are removed in the attainment of Arhantship, which is liberation in Buddhism's standards (liberation from suffering and rebirth).

Yui Hirasawa SG

AEN u entered the stream ? You are a stream enterer ? Gong Xi.

An Eternal Now SG

Haha, I don't like to talk about attainments, however I do share my realizations and experience to those interested.