Enlightenment

geis SG

http://www.inquiringmind.com/Articles/Enlightenments.html

Aik TC SG

Nice article. A teacher can only point a finger on the direction to take. Enlightenment is something that is unconditioned and difficult to put to words, getting there will solely depend on each individual experiencing it for oneself.

Weychin SG

Your article reminded me of Morihei Ueshiba, founder of Aikido, a path of non violence through martial arts.

“ ...I felt the universe suddenly quake, and that a golden spirit sprang up from the ground, veiled my body, and changed my body into a golden one. At the same time my body became light. I was able to understand the whispering of the birds, and was clearly aware of the mind of God, the creator of the universe.

At that moment I was enlightened: the source of budo is God's love - the spirit of loving protection for all beings... Budo is not the felling of an opponent by force; nor is it a tool to lead the world to destruction with arms. True Budo is to accept the spirit of the universe, keep the peace of the world, correctly produce, protect and cultivate all beings in nature.^[12]

geis SG

in any physical experience is it due to conditions? so then is the so-called experience of enlightenment conditional or unconditional? exactly where if one is to get there and to what is this experience happening?

An Eternal Now SG

Enlightenment is conditional.

If enlightenment were not conditional, everyone would be enlightened right now.

However the fact is, not everyone is enlightened. Those who say otherwise is having a confused view. We all have the potential to be enlightened, but without practice, that potential will never be actualized. This potential is also called Buddha-nature or the Tathagatagarbha, or the embryo of Buddhahood.

That said, reality is already spontaneously perfected.

However, whether we realize this makes all the difference.

Aloozer SG

Enlightenment is conditional.

If enlightenment were not conditional, everyone would be enlightened right now.

That said, reality is already spontaneously perfected.

However, whether we realize this makes all the difference.

so if enlightenment is conditional, means enlightenment is not permanent? bcos in buddhism, everything that is conditional is impermanent what

Thusness SG

Enlightenment is conditional.

If enlightenment were not conditional, everyone would be enlightened right now.

That said, reality is already spontaneously perfected.

However, whether we realize this makes all the difference.

Yes. There is nothing that can arise without necessary supporting conditions and that includes 'nirvana'. No transcendental 'unconditioned' being or 'state' exists by itself and of itself. The 'unconditioned' in Buddhism is the spontaneous perfection of all necessary conditions in the natural state. This is only realized after the direct insights of the 2 fold emptiness. :)

An Eternal Now SG

so if enlightenment is conditional, means enlightenment is not permanent? bcos in buddhism, everything that is conditional is impermanent what

Wisdom is eternal but changing. To realize that in reality there is only change without experiencer is wisdom, and in the change no trace of self, enlightenment or wisdom remains, and this traceless enlightenment continues forever. But if one says one attains wisdom, one is fabricating something ('attainment', 'wisdom', 'attainer', etc) that cannot be established. No inherent wisdom can be found anywhere. Wisdom is the direct cognition of reality without distortion, which arises dependent on our practice and insights. (see http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/417530?amp%3Bpage=1)

http://www.byomakusuma.org/Ved%C3%83%C2%A0ntavis%C3%83%C2%A0visShentong/tabid/87/Default.aspx

If we analyze both the Hindu Sankaràcàrya’s and the Buddhist Śāntarakṣita’s, we find that both agree that the view of the Hindu Advaita Vedànta is that the ultimate reality (âtmà) is an unchanging, eternal non-dual cognition. The Buddhists as a whole do not agree that the ultimate reality is an eternal, unchanging non-dual cognition, but rather a changing eternal non-dual cognition. These statements found in the 6th century Hindu text and the refutations of the Hindu view found in the 9th century Buddhist texts (both of which were after the Uttara Tantra and Asanga), show that the Hindu view of the ultimate reality as an unchanging, eternal non-dual cognition is non-existent amongst the Buddhists of India. Not only was such a view non-existent amongst Buddhists of India, but it was also refuted as a wrong view by scholars like Śāntarakṣita. He even writes that if and when Buddhists use the word ‘eternal’ (nitya), it means ‘parinàmi nitya’, i.e., changing eternal, and not the Hindu kind of eternal, which always remains unchanged.

An Eternal Now SG

I see.. thanks :)

An Eternal Now SG

This is how Enlightenment is conditional.

Buddha:

http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/417530?amp%3Bpage=1

"Thus, monks, ignorance is the supporting condition for kamma formations, kamma formations are the supporting condition for consciousness, consciousness is the supporting condition for mentality-materiality, mentality-materiality is the supporting condition for the sixfold sense base, the sixfold sense base is the supporting condition for contact, contact is the supporting condition for feeling, feeling is the supporting condition for craving, craving is the supporting condition for clinging, clinging is the supporting condition for existence, existence is the supporting condition for birth, birth is the supporting condition for suffering, suffering is the supporting condition for faith, faith is the supporting condition for joy, joy is the supporting condition for rapture, rapture is the supporting condition for tranquillity, tranquillity is the supporting condition for happiness, happiness is the supporting condition for concentration, concentration is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of things as they really are, the knowledge and vision of things as they really are is the supporting condition for disenchantment, disenchantment is the supporting condition for dispassion, dispassion is the supporting condition for emancipation, and emancipation is the supporting condition for the knowledge of the destruction (of the cankers).

geis SG

thanks Thusness and AEN

般若心经
[唐]玄奘法师译

观自在菩萨，行深般若波罗蜜多时，照见五蕴皆空，度一切苦厄。
舍利子,色不异空,空不异色；色即是空,空即是色。受、想、行、识，亦复如是。舍利子，是诸法空相：不生、不灭；不垢、不净；不增、不减。是故空中无色。无受、想、行、识；无眼、耳、鼻、舌、身、意；无色、香、声、味、触、法。无眼界，乃至无意识界；无无明，亦无无明尽；乃至无老死，亦无老死尽。无苦、集、灭、道。无智亦无得，以无所得故。菩提萨捶，依般若波罗蜜多故。心无挂碍，无挂碍故。无有恐怖，远离颠倒梦想、究竟涅磐。三世诸佛，依般若波罗蜜多故。得阿耨多罗三藐三菩提。
故知般若波罗蜜多，是大神咒，是大明咒，是无上咒，是无等等咒。能除一切苦，真实不虚。故说般若波罗蜜多咒，即说咒曰：“揭谛！揭谛！波罗揭谛！波罗僧揭谛！菩提萨婆诃！”

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/heartstr.htm for english translation and commentary

An Eternal Now SG

http://www.inquiringmind.com/Articles/Enlightenments.html

Nice article... however, I think he seems to mistaken the I AM/Eternal Witness as enlightenment, and treat non-dual as a passing state.

i.e. ' As we let go of clinging, we feel the tentative selflessness of things. Sometimes boundaries dissolve, and we can’t separate ourself from the plum tree, the birdsong or the morning traffic.'

This is seeing non-dual as an experience that you can enter and leave, and not as being what is already always so (which requires realization). In actuality, you can never separate yourself from the plum, because there is simply always just the experience 'plum' (or whatever you are experiencing at the moment) without an experiencer.

As Ken Wilber said:

This is why, in Zen, it is said that you cannot enter the Great Samadhi: it is actually the opening or clearing that is ever-present, and in which all experience—and all manifestation—arises moment to moment. It seems like you “enter” this state, except that once there, you realize there was never a time that this state wasn’t fully present and fully recognized—“the gateless gate.” And so you deeply understand that you never entered this state; nor did the Buddhas, past or future, ever enter this state.

geis SG

Nice article... however, I think he seems to mistaken the I AM/Eternal Witness as enlightenment, and treat non-dual as a passing state.

As Ken Wilber said:

not sure about that.

i think he's describing the experiences of the various gates in a broad sense. but then again i dunno

An Eternal Now SG

not sure about that.

i think he's describing the experiences of the various gates in a broad sense. but then again i dunno

Jack Kornfield has some good books and I have looked through them... but in terms of non dual insight, wasn't too impressed.

Some of the Thai forest masters (and Jack Kornfield follows them quite closely I think, as well as being influenced by Advaita teachers) are also quite dualistic... don't really like to comment too much, but quite a number of the Thai forest tradition teachers have a tendency to cling to the I AM, or reify the non-dual into substantialist non-dualism. There is a monk/moderator in e-sangha who once criticized Thai Forest Tradition for having a tendency to lead towards eternalism, while some other teachers have a tendency to lead towards nihilism. Actually he was quite right but of course came under heavy criticisms from each side of the camp. Of course this doesn't apply to every teacher in the Thai Forest Tradition. But even Ajahn Brahmavamso commented that even high monks (probably referring to his tradition) have a tendency to reify the Poo Roo ('The One Who Knows') as an ultimate self or refuge where in reality even that is a conditional arising without self.

geis SG

i only read 2 of Jack's book, but at the time of reading the books most of the experiences he related resounded, never had the chance to re-read now as the books have been given away to friends.

it's may probably be so that many practitioners, even so-called masters, will have the tendency to reify the non-dual experience. i feel that that is just the tendency, and the display of this is also selfless in nature. this process is continuous and with the right conditions arising will surely be realized.

the process of the ego is very intricate, constant mindfulness is necessary throughout this very lifetime. if we think we 'got it' then surely its not.

An Eternal Now SG

i only read 2 of Jack's book, but at the time of reading the books most of the experiences he related resounded, never had the chance to re-read now as the books have been given away to friends.

the process of the ego is very intricate, constant mindfulness is necessary throughout this very lifetime. if we think we 'got it' then surely its not.

Having realized the I AM is different from having a non-dual experience (with sound, sight, etc). And yet, non-dual experience (a temporary state) is different from non-dual insight...

And non-dual insight without right view turns into substantial non-dualism. Non-dual insight with right view gradually leads to the realization of Anatta.

Even if one is dedicated in practice, doesn't mean they will have the right view. Like I said before... I've seen practitioners and teachers and masters much more dedicated than me practicing for decades and they still get stuck at the I AM stage or substantial non-dualism stage. Without someone to point them out, they will never realize it their entire life.

Whereas for me, though I didn't practice very hard at all (quite lazy actually haha), due to having instilled the right view, these insights came quickly, all within one year. The right view is the 'right conditions'.

geis SG

Having realized the I AM is different from having a non-dual experience (with sound, sight, etc). And yet, non-dual experience (a temporary state) is different from non-dual insight...

And non-dual insight without right view turns into substantial non-dualism. Non-dual insight with right view gradually leads to the realization of Anatta.

yes

like one of senior at vmc told me last week, the view needs to constantly be refined. whether the conditions for it to happen will arise or not depends very much on the karma and parami

geis SG

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/sujin1.htm

taoteching SG

Having realized the I AM is different from having a non-dual experience (with sound, sight, etc). And yet, non-dual experience (a temporary state) is different from non-dual insight...

And non-dual insight without right view turns into substantial non-dualism. Non-dual insight with right view gradually leads to the realization of Anatta.

AEN ,

Questions 'bout self-inquiry and right view - their connections..

In the case of someone striving hard to awakened/experience to the 'watcher',the 'One Mind' , the view he's having(or must have) at this stage seems *not* to be no-self,on the contrary,he must hold on to the perspective that "consciousness is all there is ". How is it possible the experience(for those haven't got/experience it)of oneness be achieved if one is believing otherwise?It's impossible!

As Thusness said in http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html :

' when I spoke to a Buddhist friend, he told me about the doctrine of no-self, about no ‘I’. I rejected such doctrine outright as it is in direct contradiction with what I experienced. I was deeply confused for some time and could not appreciate why Buddha has taught this doctrine and worst still make it a Dharma Seal. '

(In his case,the experience he *already had* was in contradiction with anatta ; my question ,though, concerns those haven't got the experience -)

Am i right to say that at the beginning stage of inquiry,not only the view of no-self not to be hold on to,one must cling hard to the view of Self ?

Aik TC SG

Sorry for the confusion on the term ‘unconditioned’. The process toward enlightenment would be conditional. When one is enlightened, one has realized the state of the unconditioned, ultimate reality itself, which transcends all conditional, everyday existence.