Is it really so?

geis SG

when i was younger (still young now haha) i used to be fascinated about time travel. i used to be very confused about this, read up alot about time travel. however what i couldn't resolve then was this: if it is really possible, surely someone from the future would have come back. this brought me to all the reading about parallel universes etc.

and now practicing the dharma there's no longer any need or interest to explore this anymore.

looking at the diversity of materials and opinions of the different 'schools' of teachings, a familiar feeling arises.

if really enlightenment or reborn in pureland or buddhahood is supposed to be the way we Think it should be, then is it really so?

or is it just an idea to be seen through? much like the idea of time travel.

sinweiy SG

i have some doubt on going back physically. i think one can go back spiritually into the past in the sense that they can watch, but not touch the history. like the master who meditated on Lotus sutra and return spiritually to see Buddha expounding the Dharma.

going forward into future is in a form like let say u go to outer space/heaven, faster than speed of light and return, then people on earth had pass a few (hundred) years. but u are still about the same age. it's this kind of "travelling" into future.

ya, if the idea of time travel is true, then why we never see future people coming back to help.

An Eternal Now SG

My views on time travel is same as sinweiy's.

As for enlightenment and rebirth in pureland: I don't think it can be compared to time travel. Why? Because nobody 'returned from the future'.

But there are indeed, people who are enlightened today. Of course whether they resemble our ideas of enlightenment, that very much depends on what kind of ideas that person has... I do think that a lot of ideas about enlightenment are unrealistic and false. However, the description of enlightenment by Buddha is very clear and states it just as it is.

In my experience, enlightenment is not about 'I become enlightened' (there is no 'self' to become enlightened) or entering an altered state of consciousness... it is the simple, direct seeing of reality... and there is great clarity when the truth is seen, but also in another sense it is completely ordinary. 'Ordinary Mind is Tao', as they say. You don't feel like you become someone special or that you become an 'enlightened being', etc... in a way things continue just as before - before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

Awakening means in experiencing there is just experiences, just sensations, just scenery, just sounds, just action, there is no self behind those experiences. There is just this ongoing experiencing without an experiencer... actions, but no doer.. there is no 'enlightened being' or even an 'enlightened experience' - mundane experiences continue to arise just the same as before, but now there is just ongoing seeing/experiencing without the delusion of 'self'...

I however cannot claim to be fully enlightened... defilements are still present and I have a long journey ahead. I cannot claim 'I have ended suffering', 'I have removed all defilements', but at least some basic facts about reality that are taught by Buddha is clearly glimpsed, and there is no more doubts about this... I also do not doubt that ending of suffering is possible as I'm sure there are others who have gone all the way.

An Eternal Now SG

I forgot to add the part about pure land: there are in fact quite a few people who return from pure land (I've heard of a Vietnamese monk whose account is very similar to my Master's). I don't have the source now... but here's my Master's account:

Disciple: Master, how do we witness Sukhavathi?

Master Shen Kai: That's easy. But Sukhavathi is very far away. How far? It's passing through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddhalands. In between this hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddhalands are not Buddhalands but Hui Tu. Buddhalands are pure where Buddhas dwell. Sukhavathi is hence very very far away. Far does not mean we don't believe.

In the sutras, Buddha used to explain that it's very very near. So near that nobody believe it's true. There's no choice as sentient beings are too greedy, hence say it's very very far away and not easy to go or reach. So He expound the Amitabha Sutra, where Buddha spoke without people asking. If a person is not greedy, then Dharmakaya is very near as it encompass everything.
Since it's entire existence, it's so near to reach like space everywhere exist Dharmakaya. Without Dharmakaya, Earth cannot be in the space. Cars cannot works. Every thing is benefited by Dharmakaya.

When people do business, they need an initial funding, now Buddha say you don't need that initial funding, you believe in Amitabha and recite His name.
When one see people wearing a gold necklace, but it's just a piece of metal chain like the one you see in jail to chain prisioners. Then Buddha told sentient beings not to be obsess with gold, you just need to recite Amitabha and don't need any initial funding and you can reborn in a place where gold is use for building constructions.
So does Sukhavathi really exist? Yes. Don't think Buddha is lying. You can GO NOW and witness yourself and come back to tell people. Master tell you I been there before, you all might disbelieve. So I will describe it to you.
Sentient beings on Earth are very small, Bodhisattvas of Sukhavathi are really Big and tall. A person standing next to Amitabha only reach the height of Amitabha's toe! When I reached Sukhavathi, only wish to pay homage to Amitabha, and adore Amitabha.
Amitabha Buddha reply: What do you seek here in Sukhavathi?
Shen Kai: Honored One, i came to seek Dharma.
Amitabha Buddha ask: What kind of Dharma?
Shen Kai: i'm not sure. Seeing Amitabha's forehead is adorned with a curled hair. i wisk to seek that Dharma, Honorable One.
(Back to reality.) That's how I cultivate and got my curled hair, but this Dharma method cannot anyhow expound to people. It's is because you people have doubt in Sukhavathi. Thinking it doesn't exist. Hence I tell you my experience. Due to the busy schedule, the white hair is curled. When it grew longer to 3 inch, it will extend when i'm washing the face. That's the proof.

How did Ocean of suffering (ku hai wu bian) come about? Because beings of samsara cannot sever emotion, love and greed. Sentinet beings cry a lot. Separation from friend, family, love ones, people cry. Son is leaving, mother crys, so does the son. Mother is dying, sons also crys. When people want's to eat, the mouth starts to water. This is greed. People need to work, they swear. In a life them, people generate so many water. One person, say one bucket of water, 100 pax, 100 bucket form a pool of water. If millions of millions of people cannot sever emotion, love and greed, form an Ocean of water.

In our world there's male and female. Those who goes to jail, 99% are involve with female. But in Sukhavathi, there's not male nor female form.

(translated by Sinweiy)

sinweiy SG

going into the future in form of suspended animation is also possible.

one Buddhist example is Mahakasyapa using deep mediation. as He is still doing it now.

Weychin SG

Just my opinion, the Buddha mind can transverse the past, present and the future, as knowledge is contained herein, the mind, the present.

geis SG

thank you to all who has shared :)

i agree with AEN pointer on alot of ideas about enlightenment being unrealistic and false, only thing is some of these ideas may be arised because of misinterpretations of another's account.

im only writing this thread as a reminder that we must be vigilant in practice, and avoid holding on to any beliefs. just let the experience speak for itself.

An Eternal Now SG

Good point, geis.. :)

Amitayus48 SG

智者大师在《净土十疑》中引证，古代印度修唯识观的无著、世亲、师子觉三位菩萨，都发愿往生兜率天内院，并约定谁先往生，三年后回来报信。后师子觉先圆寂，一去竟不复返。其次世亲圆寂，三年后回报说，已到兜率天内院，听弥勒菩萨讲一座法后，绕佛三匝，即返世间，已是三年。师子觉因贪恋天上的快乐，并未进入兜率内院。无著听后，便改发誓愿，求生极乐。我们这些末法众生，应该认真衡量一番，不要好高骛远，舍易求难。

http://www.amtb-muar.org/YiJuFoHao.htm

世亲在阿逾陀国，先时与弟师子觉等二、三贤哲常相约道︰“凡修行者，都想亲见慈氏（弥勒菩萨），我们之中，哪一个先行舍寿，实现宿愿，能见到弥勒菩萨，就当告知其他人，让别人知道他已经到了兜率内院。”
其后师子觉先舍寿命，三年不报消息，跟著世亲菩萨亦舍寿命，经过六个月，亦未见通报。
这时各派信徒，全都讥笑他们，认为世亲菩萨及师子觉已经转生恶道，故而未能灵验通报。
其后有一天傍晚之时无著菩萨正为学生讲授入定之法。灯光忽然暗淡，空中大放光明。有一天仙自虚空冉冉而下。即进庭阶，敬礼无著菩萨、菩萨认出是世亲，便问道“你为何这么晚来，有甚么话要跟我说吗？”答道︰“我自从在此舍寿之后，上升兜率天弥勒内院。在众莲花中出生。”莲花才开，弥勒便称赞说︰“善来！广慧，善来！广慧。”我于是旋绕菩萨（印度对尊长的一种礼节），才绕了一周，即来通报。无著便问︰“师子觉今在何处？”答道︰“我在旋绕时，见师子觉在外面天人众中，耽著欲乐，应接不暇，那能来通报？”无著听了，默然一阵，便说︰“此事已过去了，且说说慈氏（弥勒菩萨）的相貌如何，现正在说甚么法？”答道︰“慈氏相好，非言语所能形容。演说妙法，与你所说的一样。然而慈氏妙音清畅和雅，听者不厌，都忘了疲倦？”
从上一段典故得知，上升兜率天亦非无阻碍，必须要进内院，如误在外面，就将修行耽搁了。所以世亲虽为瑜伽行派创始人之一，但也心愿阿弥陀净土。如他所撰作的《摄大乘论释》结尾回向说︰
我说句义所生善，因此愿悉见弥陀
由得净眼成正觉。
又如在其著名的往生论开头也有偈诵透露其心愿︰
世尊我一心，归命尽十方，无碍光如来，愿生安乐国。

http://bbs.fjnet.com/viewthread.php?tid=181753&page=1

Rainbow Jigsaw SG

and now practicing the dharma there's no longer any need or interest to explore this anymore.

looking at the diversity of materials and opinions of the different 'schools' of teachings, a familiar feeling arises.

if really enlightenment or reborn in pureland or buddhahood is supposed to be the way we Think it should be, then is it really so?

or is it just an idea to be seen through? much like the idea of time travel.

Time travel physically is possible, but will not be allowed in this 3rd dimension, as people's Consciousness are not high enough to use the ability/technology wisely. That is also the reason why Earth's space program is still so backward, as people on Earth are not allowed to venture beyond, and cause problems for the other worlds. Humans are causing more than enough problems here.

In reality, time is not linear, and there are many parallel timelines existing at any one time. That's why it's possible for some people to know/see/feel the future and past.

As for the part of "people from the future coming back to help", how many people on Earth now can open their minds enough to believe it is possible and accept help? The real leaders of this world will do whatever is necessary (by pulling invisible strings) to influence their followers to ridicule and reject (in extreme cases, even kill) well-meaning souls, to protect their power-base and influence. To acknowledge there are beings in this world who are very clear about the existing problems and know the future, and accept these beings' help is to admit their teachings and instructions now are flawed. And so, people fall deeper and deeper into the illusion, by their own choosing.

Because of long term negative conditioning since Earth's ancient history, the mass collective Consciousness of Earth has become a very tough and hardened shield that is preventing most people from raising their Consciousness enough to see through the Illusion of Life on Earth. Hence, most people on Earth have to learn through actual experience how to choose their own life options that will help them, not cause them harm, in the longer term. Law of Cause and Effect is governing this aspect of people's learning and life journeys.

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life (spiritual free-thinker)

sinweiy SG

Time travel physically is possible, but will not be allowed in this 3rd dimension, as people's Consciousness are not high enough to use the ability/technology wisely.

hmm, is it those u see in movie where they change something from the history, the future will change along with it, when they return? or they know the future lottery number and go back into past and buy lottery to win big money?