Is Buddhism an off-shoot of Hinduism?

Herzog_Zwei SG

so whats the name of this preaching?

independent origination.

Weychin SG

Deduced or soothsaying?

Soothsaying is for anybody who just wants to buy to insurance, to stay on the "right" side!

Afraid you can't do that if you wish to understand or practise Buddhism!

Weychin SG

independent origination.

Probably something irrelevant that it does'nt warrant description.

Rooney9 SG

independent origination.

so pls explain what independent origination is. 2 word liner isnt helpful in clarifying.

Rooney9 SG

Probably something irrelevant that it does'nt warrant description.

independent origination means exists on its own. how can a thing or object exists on its own? even einstein said everything is relative.

Weychin SG

In this instance, anything that reify "self",

Sorry, but to date,I have been unable to find Herzog _Zwei's explanation or clarification of any of his views .

longchen SG

Many people argue against the existence of Creator because many tend to think of Earth as the most important planet in the Universe and humans as the all-supreme species of beings, and don't fully understand the real purpose of Earth's existence.

Anyway, for folks wanting to know more, just know that while Earth was created by Creator, humans were not created by Him, but by very highly evolved beings. For folks who don't believe this, just treat what I said as a story. :)

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life

A sharing... I really hesitate to write this.. Anyway..

RJ may not be wrong. Neither is Buddhism's stand as well.

There is a need to understand from the ultimate side and the appearance side.

From the appearance side, the world and its 'things' are indeed created.

From the ultimate Truth side, although many things are created, none is truly self-existing and exist as separate objects.

In another word, all apparent acts of creation are in fact as the word imply ... 'apparent'. Everything appears as if on the screen of consciousness..not a good description as there is really no concept to describe what is. An analogy to illustrate, you watch a TV show, they are showing you how to make cake. If you get absorbed into the scene, the cake is indeed created to the mind. However, now, this is actually a TV show, there is no real cake being made.

Understanding the truth of matters requires a willingness to not accept things at face value. This include questioning the percieved view of the world.

As mentioned in an earlier post, in order for a creator to be able to create, it must be separated from its creation. Otherwise, it will not make a successful creation as the creation will not be distinctly different from it. However, if a medium of separation is in existence, it will make the Creator not the creator but the medium the creator instead.

For anything to be separated from another thing, there must be a medium for the separation to occur. From the perception of senses, that medium will be space, giving rise to distance and location. So, is the Creator a Being in space? If it is, then space will be the source of this Creator for the latter will not be able to exist without space. This is not a question with an absolute answer but is to allow for the perception of the world to be deeply inquired.

Buddhism's approach is in circumventing the pitfalls associated with conceptual/mental understanding. This is extremely ingenius because it takes into account the effect of referential concept/mental thinking on the direct experience of Truth.

Rainbow Jigsaw SG

A sharing... I really hesitate to write this.. Anyway..

RJ may not be wrong. Neither is Buddhism's stand as well.

There is a need to understand from the ultimate side and the appearance side.

From the appearance side, the world and its 'things' are indeed created.

From the ultimate Truth side, although many things are created, none is truly self-existing and exist as separate objects.

Understanding the truth of matters requires a willingness to not accept things at face value. This include questioning the percieved view of the world.

As mentioned in an earlier post, in order for a creator to be able to create, it must be separated from its creation. Otherwise, it will not make a successful creation as the creation is not distinctly different from it. However, if a medium of separation is in existence, it will make the Creator not the creator but the medium the creator instead. Am writing this to allow for the understanding of the perception of the world to be deeply inquired.

Though I often talk about existence of Creator/Source, I've also often highlighted that we're all One, and not totally separate from Creator/Source, which is not a physical being, but the 'ultimate consciousness of All That Is'. The word "God" is just a man-made term for the 'ultimate-consciousness' that the Universe is part of. So effectively, there's no separation of any being or thing, even though physically, we appear to be distinct entities.

But the biggest problem for our world is that people get too attached to their respective groups of faith and religion, and see themselves as totally separate (and worst still, superior to everyone else) from other beings.

The only reason why I posted in this thread is that the feeling/behaviour of 'my faith, supreme; all other faiths, rubbish' seems to be growing. I'm very sure Buddha never intended it to be so.

Anyway, what is meant to happen, will happen. :)

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life

AtlasWept SG

so pls explain what independent origination is. 2 word liner isnt helpful in clarifying.

Buddhism distinguishes two different aspects as it relates to dependant origination and independent origination. We can discuss these ideas by perhaps examining the difference between relative/conventional truth and ultimate/absolute truth, and the very mechanisms of cause and effect and that of interdependency (dependant origination).

From a certain point of view, that of relative/conventional truth, the laws of cause and effect are inescapable. But if one were to look at things from the point of view of ultimate/absolute truth or even discursive logic, the laws of cause and effect couldn’t operate with entities that had any permanent and solid existence (independently originating/existing). There are no cause and effect relationships between truly existing entities, but there are such relationships between transitory phenomena. Some call them structural relationships, such as Einstein and Kant, however in Buddhism the term is often referred to as relationships of interdependence (dependant origination) – ‘This exists because that is so and so on, and this is produced on the basis of that and so on.’ Again nothing exists by itself, independent of other phenomena. As such, each of the elements of the chain of cause and effect is itself an aggregate of fleeting elements in perpetual flux.

When one dissects the process of cause and effect from the point of view of ultimate/absolute truth, you can only conclude that it is a process that cannot link entities that have any sort of true, independent existence. Either the cause disappears before the effect appears, in which case the cause, as something which no longer exists, couldn’t possibly have any relationship with the effect; or the cause is still present at the moment the effect appears, in which case it cannot be the cause of the effect, because there cannot be a cause and effect relationship between two things that exist simultaneously.

The phenomenal world, as we perceive it, belongs to relative/conventional truth, which is governed entirely by the laws of cause and effect and thusly interdependence. The ultimate nature of things, transcending any concept of being or non-being, appearance or cessation, movement or non-movement, one or many, belongs to ultimate/absolute truth. Ultimate/absolute truth is therefore the realization of emptiness (not to be confused with nothingness), of enlightenment, of non-duality, which can only be understood by contemplative experience and not by analytical thought…

AtlasWept SG

[...] Buddhism's approach is in circumventing the pitfalls associated with conceptual/mental understanding. This is extremely ingenius because it takes into account the effect of referential concept/mental thinking on the direct experience of Truth.

Many will be grateful that hesitation gave way to perseverance...

Yes, towards this and other matters of contemplation, analysis and cordial debate, Buddhism takes a middle path. It doesn’t deny the reality of phenomena in the relative world of perception, but it does deny that there are any permanent, autonomous entities existing behind phenomena. That is why we speak of a ‘middle path’ that falls neither into nihilism, for which nothing exists outside our perception and everything is nothingness, nor into ‘eternalism’ for which there is a unique reality that exists independently of any perception and is composed of entities that exist by themselves.

geis SG

The only reason why I posted in this thread is that the feeling/behaviour of 'my faith, supreme; all other faiths, rubbish' seems to be growing. I'm very sure Buddha never intended it to be so.

Anyway, what is meant to happen, will happen. :)

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life

thank you for the kind reminder :)

so long as we are still 'unenlightened', the trappings of dualistic views will continue to have a strong grip.

groupthink can manifest in all organizations, very salient in religious groups.

as Buddhists, i feel it is important to remember that the teachings are a raft to cross the stream. faith is important, so is a discerning mind.

whatever practices one adopt, there can only be one truth, and this truth is non religious.

Weychin SG

The only reason why I posted in this thread is that the feeling/behaviour of 'my faith, supreme; all other faiths, rubbish' seems to be growing. I'm very sure Buddha never intended it to be so.

Anyway, what is meant to happen, will happen. :)

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life

Ultimate conciousness is here and all present, all you have projected is to the future, unable to relate here and now, as "now" precedes the future, yet you are not able put in context to the present, making you presently irrelevant.

Rooney9 SG

Buddha has explained on the causes of sufferings and the 4 Noble Truths. He said, even however the dhamma is great, you have to let go. He gave an analogy. will you continue to carry the raft with you after you have reached the shore, brilliant isnt it the analogy.

Rainbow Jigsaw SG

It doesn't matter to me if I'm considered "presently relevant" or not. I'm just a tiny speck in the huge Universe. As long as there's even 1 person out there who understands the meaning behind my posts, I've done my little part in helping him/her in his/her journey. :)

To me, that's what Life is about: helping others, and not just think or harp about how great our own ideas/beliefs/actions are, as compared to others. There's seriously far too many self-centred folks out there, and continuing a self-centred path will only bring tears in future.

Weychin SG

I having the same thought as you !

But how can you help if you are not even here and now?! Do share!

Fcukpap SG

this is a basic philosophical dialectic situation where ideas grow from ideas...from order, disorder, thesis and anti-thesis....

knowledge is elastic, transformable and relative. each generation benefit from the past knowledge and experiences to form a new order with past influences. We are all indebted to history into our post-modern world...

all stand on the shoulders of giants to see clearer and further, which is how civilization began.

Weychin SG

this is a basic philosophical dialectic situation where ideas grow from ideas...from order, disorder, thesis and anti-thesis....

all stand on the shoulders of giants to see clearer and further, which is how civilization began.

And also in resolving point of contention : posit and substantiate

Rainbow Jigsaw SG

I having the same thought as you !

But how can you help if you are not even here and now?! Do share!

Somehow, I don't feel we're on the same page, so let's just leave it as that. Just treat me as non-existent then. I'm ok. :)

There are already readers who understood my point, which is good to know. I'm sure they will be helping others around them in turn. To these folks: Pass it on! :)

Rooney9 SG

Somehow, I don't feel we're on the same page, so let's just leave it as that. Just treat me as non-existent then. I'm ok. :)

There are already readers who understood my point, which is good to know. I'm sure they will be helping others around them in turn. To these folks: Pass it on! :)

yes I felt that we do not share your beliefs here. I am not sure if other reading would understood your point made.

Weychin SG

Somehow, I don't feel we're on the same page, so let's just leave it as that. Just treat me as non-existent then. I'm ok. :)

There are already readers who understood my point, which is good to know. I'm sure they will be helping others around them in turn. To these folks: Pass it on! :)

Ah! But you forget, this is a Buddhist website, it pertains to Buddhism and Buddhist beliefs whether rightly or falsely held, can be discussed and relevancy questioned.

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