Folk religion and Buddhism, can match a not?

VexTeen92 SG

Hello again. Previously my topic was on my friendship prob and religion/belief. Some intro here: 2 years ago, my best friend was also "brainwashed" by some of her schoolmates and a series of problem came after that. Becoz we had been friends since childhood, her family rely very much on me to talk her out. That was the time where i really felt a need to investigate religion/belief. Because the impact is beyond description. And now proceeding to my good friend, its second blow/reminder to me. I started to research on my native religion (borned buddhist) since 2 years ago and up till now i can say it makes a lot of sense (90 over %). But knowing is not enough, so i proceed to listen to dharmma talks on youtube. And for some part of it really affect me (use to kill off any insect i see in my house, now i ignore them), but after a period of time i kinda return to my "normal" self.

In my home, we host "Guan yin" and "Jin tong" "Yu nv", we practise some folk religion. After researching/investigating, i understand that somehow these practices is catergorize as supertitious. Like how can burning incense paper can feed the dead or make some chinese deity happy...etc. I conclude if one practice the dharmma diligently, there is no need to do all those ritual stuffs...etc...

But i have a problem here, i believe they don't exist for nothing. And since young my mother would bring me and my siblings to a "shifu" for blessing. Our "shifu" is a somehow like a fengshui master but he also have an ability to help people with troubles (both paranormal and non-paranormal). I don't think this is supertitious.

Because initially, my mother, during her younger days, she wanted to become a free thinker. But when her 1st child was borned (eldest sis), some unexplained occurence leads her to no choice. My sis would cry for hours whenever she is exposed to strangers. Any stranger, passerby, she would cry for hours for no reason. Thus it is very difficult to bring her out. So her friend suggest her to a malay healer, and my sis became better and stopped crying. The malay healer told my mother to avoid pregnant ladies from my coming near my sis. Then after some time, my mother sorta forget about it and then one day my sis cry again, to the extent her face turned pale green. So my mother hurried to the malay healer, my sis was calmed after that. The malay healer then scold my mother upside down for not heeding his advice. My mother returned home after that and since then she became very careful. But because she had to travel long distance in order to visit the malay healer, she turned to another who stayed nearer to our home. It is our "shifu".

From what i heard from my mother, "shifu" did not choose to become shifu himself. My mother said he was picked/点到 by "Guan yin" and he travelled all the way to India to practice after that. He then returned to Singapore and started to help people. Every vesak day, there would be some ceremony held under his HDB block. I attend it when i was young. And its just like any typical Buddhist ceremony we would bath Buddha/baby siddhartta with water and chanting and then proceed on to vegetarian buffet....etc. Now he had moved to other places not sure whether there is still these ceremonies. But he had a "office" in somewhere and we can find him there.

Now, as he is getting older, he felt abit exhausted. And he even had the idea to stop all this practices/helping people. But he couldn't, because he would fall sick and doctors could not help him anyway. My mother say he tried to negotiate but failed so he have no choice but to continue helping people.

Continue from my sis: now i will talk about my Brother. Again when he was young, there is this one very scary occurence, i was already borned that time. One day late at night, when everybody was sleeping, my maid felt thirsty so she got up and went to pour a cup of water. When she woke up, she realise my brother was missing. she then went around the house trying to find him, that is when she saw the main door was opened. As she go nearer to check it out, she gaze out the window next to the door and she was shocked to see my brother standing in the middle of the road. she then rushed down and grab him. She took him back to our house and woke my parents up. And then when my father ask him why did he run out, that is when something happen. My brother spoke in a man voice, in english, "what!!" "what!!" "why cannot!!" It scares my parent. And so my bro was brought to "shifu" and "shifu" will chant to bless him. He also give my mother some tailsman to burn and add water and told us to drink it.

So my mother concluded that we are prone to kena disturbed by paranormal existence. I did not really have all these scary occurence, but i remember when i was young, I get freaked out easily and would feel very insecure and is afraid of the dark. And sometimes i can see shadows at the corner of my eyes. The only freaky thing i experience when young is being stuck on bed, i was very awake and had lie on the bed for just some moment and then suddenly i couldn't move. Some force was keeping me down, and it was not till some time before it goes off. But i didn't tell anyone about it. Of course, it freaked me out.

So I was wondering, I cannot completely axe these practices out. So how can I practice Buddhism in a way that it suits me? I know some people who practice chanting with mala beads and observe the Buddhsim precepts, can i do the same as well?

And one more thing, I may not be the "shifu", so i don't know. But the thing is, the things that "shifu" does had really helped us. So there must be some degree of trust/reliability we have in him and what he does. So if he is picked/点到 by "Guan yin", how can we say its supertitious? So confused here.. Because lets say "Guan yin"did picked/点到 him, isn't "Guan yin" doing some supertitious things?

Anyone with similar situation?

An Eternal Now SG

Anyone with similar situation?

You did not mention what exactly did your shifu asked you to do. Since you did not mention that, I can't conclude whether it is superstitious.

Next is, a lot of people 'chosen' are actually chosen by ghost-deities. They are not really chosen by Guan Yin. Similarly, a lot of people who claim to be able to contact with Guan Yin are actually contacting spirit entities.

Rainbow Jigsaw SG

You did not mention what exactly did your shifu asked you to do. Since you did not mention that, I can't conclude whether it is superstitious.

Since it's a honest question from TS, I feel it's only fair to give an honest reply. :)

I agree on the part where it's actually quite easy to be possessed, as not everyone knows who are they actually communicating with, or what they are actually experiencing. I guess that's why religions like Buddhism discourage people from communicating with non-physical entities, to prevent typical man-on-the street from being misled.

But I need to clarify that while there are certainly fake cases out there, there are some people who can communicate with Guan Yin and other Higher Beings, which this forum is against. Negative entities will be happy to influence anyone who 'invite' them, consciously or sub-consciously. As for real Higher Beings like Guan Yin (not some strange generals), they will only communicate with people who are ready (spiritually) and sincerely want to help people. People expecting to get rich from Higher Beings' help should look elsewhere for help.

Communicating with Higher Beings is not a circus act for entertainment. It's meant to help people with genuine needs, not for fun or pure money-making. Higher Beings have no wish for people to be dependent on their help, as their real intention is for people to believe in their own power to co-create/manifest what they need in their daily lives, for their highest good (and not pure selfish desires).

I would not recommend people to try connecting with negative non-physical entities, with or without spiritual protection, as some of them are quite hard to get rid of, once they enter the body/mind.

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life

VexTeen92 SG

You did not mention what exactly did your shifu asked you to do. Since you did not mention that, I can't conclude whether it is superstitious.

Actually the "shifu" nvr told us to do anything, its only when we go look for him and ask him for advice. The things he do, lets say i visit him today, he will ask what am i doing here, then if lets say got new born baby need to pick names and blessing then he will chant/bless then pick name for your baby...etc or maybe i am haunted by paranormal things, then he will bless me and then maybe give me some advice. Very simple. and he have an ability to see through your life, example lets say i place a statue in my room or something and that statue is causing some prob in your life, be it paranormal or else, he can describe exactly how your room look like and where you place the statue...etc. like some psychic powers.

I don't know whether about the ghost deities stuff, but i thought its very difficult or impossible for any other ghost or whatever to come tell in the image/name of "Guan yin"?? Because there will be "护法神" right? The ghost can transform to any other Buddhas but the Three sages in the western pure land they cannot transform right? I heard this from some venerable on youtube.

And i don't think he do this for a living, because he can't possibly own a car/house from doing this. sometime there is alot of people looking for him and at times little. not a steady income. I don't know about other people but he don't really ask us to pay much. its always his assistant handling $ and they don't ask for alot.

And he did say to us, its best that people settle their own problem. Don't always come to him, because that means you got alot of problem. He don't really like it if a person go to him too many times. When my brother was younger he got into trouble with law. He led astray by friends and went to sell some pirated stuff and got caught. then he was gonna sentence for jail tgt wif his friends. my mother out of desperation went to "shifu", but he don't want to help my mother because he say if she keep protecting him it will harm him more, he won't learn his lesson. My mother was angry with "shifu" that time, and she went to other deity representation. Out of 5 convict, my bro was then spared from jail, but the price paid was very huge. whole family sank into financial crisis(up till now) and he did not really learn his lesson either.

Compare to others, i find this "shifu" not very ritualistic and quite true. I know one should always stick to the dharmma and not things/psychic like this, but its quite difficult for us not to believe it. Because I got this question in my mind: So is it really "Guan yin" ?

I don't know, but i must say "Guan yin" did really protect us. Because of chinese influence you understand? It blend into our culture so well. old people not very educated they don't really know what the Buddha taught. But what about us young teenager, on one hand Buddhist teaching that can be found online...etc then on the other hand "Guan yin" is here and choosing people to help people.

One more thing to add, when my elder sis was getting married (now divorced), the in-laws are into some thai occult , and the father of the groom was dying of cancer. The mother in-law had some twisted thoughts and tried to channel the bad energy to our home in order to sustain his life, she picked a date for the marriage. And then somehow, my mother went to double check the date with "shifu", and of coz it was a bad date. i remember my "shifu" say there will be a "Tree" in our family that will fall down if we compromise. "Tree is like a home to many animals and provide shelter for them, if the tree fall down, what will happen?" i think "Guan yin" gave the "shifu" this words, then "shifu" told us to go back and tell the in-laws to change date. The in-laws refuses and claim that her deity said its a good date. Then a series of conflict happen, then one day my mother went to "shifu" again, then "Guan yin" sorta ask "shifu" to tell us to go tell the in-laws, "which deity ask you choose this date? which temple? what name? I want to know." and we did. And added behind, its not us, its not "shifu", its "Guan yin" wants to know. The mother of the groom was loss for words and was shocked. And very sadly, in the end there is no ceremony held. But they divorced anyway so doesn't matter now.

There is alot of occurence like this in our home, so i am confused here. You cannot say they are supertitious right? I mean, they protect us, look after the people in the house. so what do you think? Now in the family, i think i am the only keen one to know more about Buddhsim. But this is a problem bothering me, is it supertitions? I suppose "Guan yin" made a vow to come in all direction to reach out to all beings, maybe this is one of her way? Very confuse.. What can you advice me? you seem to be very knowledgable.

VexTeen92 SG

Since it's a honest question from TS, I feel it's only fair to give an honest reply. :)

I would not recommend people from trying to connect with negative non-physical entities without spiritual protection, as some of them are quite hard to get rid of, once they enter the body/mind.

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life

What is TS? thanks for your reply.

Rainbow Jigsaw SG

What is TS? thanks for your reply.

TS = Thread starter, ie. originator of this posting. :)

I'm not in the position to advise you in terms of Buddhism or any specific religious teachings, tho' I help people with spiritual and life matters. From your on-going life experiences by yourself and your family, I personally recommend you to take a step back, and not get too involved in such practices, until you find your 'centre', and know your direction in life. No offence to you, but just being very frank: my personal view is that you're currently operating in a fog, and trying to find a way to somewhere, anywhere.

Everyone's path is unique, but since you already have some foundation in Buddhism, it'll be more helpful for you at this stage in your life to spend more time learning and practising the ways of Buddhism.

Though it's good that you're interested to learn more about life, beyond what's commonly known or experienced by people, I feel you're not ready just yet. You need to be spiritually 'stable' and 'centred' first, else you could easily get lost or even harmed in the much much wider 'spiritual universe', without proper guidance.

I believe you'll be able to find your 'centre' through Buddhism, and feel more at peace and ease with yourself first. I'm sure there are quite a few experienced Buddhists in this forum who can help you in this. Then if you ever feel the need to find out and learn more about what really goes on in our world, you'll somehow know your direction by then. :)

Take care ya!

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life

VexTeen92 SG

Oh i see... thanks uh.

longchen SG

Hi Vexteen,

Just a sharing.

The main difference (to me) about superstition and the real practice is that the emphasis is entirely different.

Folk ritual is mainly about seeking protection from Gods and Boddhisatvas. In fact, to most people, this is their main concern. They are not interested in helping themselves.

For the real spiritual practice, it is about helping ourself, not seeking protection from deities. In fact, one's life may be even worst (on the conventional sense) when one is on the real path... that has been my own experience... at least. This is neccessary to break through the way we percieve life.

Hope this sums up things. :)

TTFU SG

Waa so many issues.... hope everything turns out right

An Eternal Now SG

I like longchen's comments.

It is not that spirits and maras cannot transform into Buddhas. They can. It is only that, I heard, if your main practice is Amitabha, then at death the spirit/mara/etc cannot transform into Amitabha, but they can transform into something else: Shakyamuni Buddha, Guan Yin, etc, to you.

Likewise if your main practice is Guan Yin, at death the ghost/mara can transform into anything else like Amitabha, except Guan Yin.

In Shurangama Sutra there are numerous examples of how spirits and demons transform into the images of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas to mislead people into thinking they are seeing them. It is very common.

Many of these people who are able to communicate with the spirit realm will have some powers. This is because these spirit/spirit deities are 'lending' them some of their own powers. These ghost deities and their 'human helpers' can and do help people with these (limited) powers, but it is altogether different from 'real spiritual practice' that longchen is talking about.

You mentioned the 'shifu' gets sick if he wants to quit. This is probably because the spirits are trying to force him back, won't let him leave. The spirits will make a person sick or worsen their living if they do not get what they want.

As someone posted before,

Sounds like a classical case of ghosts impersonating deities to gain access to humans.

There are some Yin temples in which ghosts are worshiped or ghosts impersonating deities to receive offerings. Once the head ghost or ghost king 'likes' you and pester you to be their medium, the ghost king will send his retinue after you. Long term association with these lower realm spirits will bring harm to the person.

Usually very hard to get rid of these spirits as the retinue can number in the thousands. One small ghost gone, the ghost king can usually just send another. These ghost kings are like mafia.

TTFU SG

I dont think buddism has any explanation on this. I think taoism maybe... Vexteens92, perhaps you can seek other ways of help and listen to more opinions.

An Eternal Now SG

A reply to an e-mail my friend Charles sent to my dharma teacher in 2004:

>Hi Charles,
>
>I'm Li Zhu lao shi's daughter, & replying on behalf of her.
>
>1) Those "chosen" people were possessed by some other spirits who claimed that they were the Tua ya bei, Ji gong and so on, all these spirits were those human beings who were very superstitious when they were alive and like going to all these superstitious places to learn these kind of teachings & practice them. All these teachings would lead human to the habit of greed, darkness, ignorance, dependent & insecurity. These spirits would always get angry & develop hatred easily when their wishes were not fulfilled. They would punish those "chosen" people, making them sick or worsen their living. Therefore, a wisdom human wouldnot believe & accept these stupid & superstitious beliefs. They would rather choose the Bliss & Wisdom teaching which would lead them to brightness & rightful thinking.
>
>
>2) Some temples tie white strings around many golden buddhas statue is because it's a form of superstitious tradition which they think the white strips would bring them brightness & luck to them. So from here, we know that all humans like to choose the brighter path & not the darker one. Only through Buddha teaching, would you achieve it.
>
>
>
>Lastly, if you wish to become a monk in future, you must start to learn the Buddha teaching now, through reading Buddhist books & listening to the CDs or coming to our centre to join our activities.
>
>May Buddha Be With You,
>Li Zhu lao shi

His questions:

To: Li Zhu lao shi.

Sorry for making you wait so long for my questions.

There's 2 questions i would like to ask you about.
1) My parents have been to some ki tang ceremony recently to ask some questions, From what i saw and heard, The ''chosen'' people who were ki tanging was possesed by Tua ya bei, Ji gong and so on. They were like cutting their own tounge. So, basically i would just like to ask whether they were really possessed by these gods or arharts or just some other spirits.

2)Why do some temples tie white strings around many golden buddhas statue?

Sorry if my question offended anyone.
Hope that li zhu lao shi can guide me with my buddhism questions till i become a monk. Maybe even after i become a monk too. =)

VexTeen92 SG

I dont think buddism has any explanation on this. I think taoism maybe... Vexteens92, perhaps you can seek other ways of help and listen to more opinions.

Yah. I think i should. Very complex ah this thing... xD

reborn76 SG

Hi Vexteen92

Sorry for the family plight. I hope and pray that you will learn to face the problem you encounter with courage. No doubt it can be painful and hard to swallow.

Sometime as a human when we are corner into circumstances that are beyond control. We may feel like walking away as sung by Craig David,"Walking Away"

However, the Buddha did not teach us to walk away from the trouble in our life. He taught us to face the trouble of our life with courage. Prior to Buddha enlightenment when he was under the Bodhi tree. He was surrounded by the Mara armies.

Perhaps the armies imply Buddha's humanistic hidden fear, anxiety and etc but He overcame them. He overcame the armies not by sword or occult power. He overcame by right understanding, wisdom and compassion. The same Buddha nature qualities that was in Shayamuni is in you today. There is no difference between you and Buddha.

Take heart, step back and tap into the Buddha nature! Learn to take one thing at a time as you are still young! Whatever will happen, it shall happen due to the effect of the ripening of the karma. You,your family and the shifu are not to be blamed. Despite of the unfavorable circumstances, continue to practice the 8 noble paths and 6 pramitas. You may think that your practice is insignificant but you will be able to accrued much merits in due times.

Gassho

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo

VexTeen92 SG

Hi Vexteen92

Sorry for the family plight. I hope and pray that you will learn to face the problem you encounter with courage. No doubt it can be painful and hard to swallow.

Sometime as a human when we are corner into circumstances that are beyond control. We may feel like walking away as sung by Craig David,"Walking Away"

Gassho

Namu Myoho Renge Kyo

Thanks!! Will take my time to explore. Although I am still confused, what you say is very true and helpful.

Rainbow Jigsaw SG

It's true that people who seek help from negative entities often have a price to pay in return, which is why these entities are negative! :) They don't understand unconditional love, as they always expect something in return.

But for the minority of people who have connections with true and real Higher Beings, their path is totally different. They are often put thru difficult tests, as a sort of training and preparation, to ensure they are truly ready (in all aspects) to help and guide people. As they progress in their training and tests, they will receive greater spiritual abilities, and knowledge. Such people would have similar roles in countless previous lifetimes, especially in this current crucial period of time where many have been 'recalled' to be back to help, all over the world. It's a truly unique period we're in now.

Rainbow Jigsaw of Life

Herzog_Zwei SG

Enjoy shugden, gents.