Benny Liow of the Young Buddhist Association of Malaysia’s
magazine Eastern Horizon talked to Rinpoche on March 7, 1996.
BL: Rinpoche, in Malaysia we have Buddhists from various
traditions. Can one learn and practice different
traditions?
LZR: Yes, definitely. We can learn from both Theravada and
Mahayana. It is really a question of our mental capacity and
intelligence to absorb the Dharma. We need to know our motivations
are we seeking enlightenment for ourselves or for the sake of
other sentient beings? Having a tradition to follow is iportant but
more important is to learn from qualified teachers and it doesn’t
matter whether Theravada or Mahayana.
If the practitioner is merely seeking liberation from samsara
for himself, then he needs to learn and practice the meditation
which will lead him onto the full path to liberation. But if his
aim is to achieve enlightenment for the sake of all sentient
beings, then he needs to learn the full path to enlightenment. In
this case there are additional meditation practices taught in the
Mahayana teachings.
To practice and have realizations on the path to enlightenment
involves several levels. Firstly, there is the graduated path of
middle capable beings, secondly, the graduated path of higher
capable beings and finally the four levels of Mahayana Tantra. Very
basic to the Mahayana practice is the development of bodhicitta,
which is the door to enlightenment.
However, you can’t realize bodhicitta without first realizing
the renunciation of samsara. We need of course to realize the
graduated path of middle-capable beings, that is, to be free from
samsara. The realization is that the nature of samsara is
suffering, that there is not one second of pure happiness. In order
to have this realization one needs to practice renunciation. This
is also found in the Theravada teachings. In order to achieve this
realization to be free from samsara, there are again various
stages. This comes firstly from realizing the Four Noble Truths.
When one practices renunciation, one develops a detached mind to
this life and also to future lives in samsara. With this
realization that the nature of samsara is suffering, it also
becomes the basis to develop compassion.
BL: Rinpoche, in your book The Door to Satisfaction
you mention the three levels of happiness happiness in future
lives, liberation from samsara (release from karma and bondage) and
enlightenment. Why is liberation from samsara different from
enlightenment?
LZR: Too achieve liberation from samsara there are five paths:
the path of accumulating merits, the preparatory path, the right
seeing path, the path of meditation and the path of no-more
learning. To be liberated from samsara is to achieve arhatship.
By achieving the right seeing path we remove 112 delusions to do
with the desire realm, form realm and formless realm. Then through
the path of meditation one removes sixteen obscurations and
delusions. With this one attains arhatship. That’s nirvana in the
sense of having ceased completely all the causes of suffering,
karma and delusion.
However, there are still obscurations, but they are very subtle.
They obstruct the arhat’s mind even though he has tremendous
psychic powers. Unlike the Buddha, the arhat is not able to see
directly everything at the same time. An arhat does not have an
omniscient mind; that’s the quality of a Buddha, one who has
completely destroyed all subtle obscurations.
In Mahayana teachings, wisdom arises when all obscurations are
removed, not only gross obscurations but even the subtle ones. The
wisdom to remove the subtle obscurations comes through the
development of bodhicitta. With this the wisdom realizing emptiness
is able to destroy the subtle obscurations. It’s like washing
cloth. First you wash the black, dirty part. Then there is still
some smell and stain left. even that is washed. Eventually the
cloth becomes completely cleaned. It becomes as clear as a mirror.
We all have the Buddha nature in our mind when the subtle
obscurations are removed.
BL: Rinpoche, you mentioned that no matter what action we
do, it is extremely important to have the right motivation. Can we
interpret this to mean having the right intention?
LZR: Yes, yes.
BL: Rinpoche said that if gamblin, for example, is done with
pure motivation it will also become pure Dharma. How could an
action like gambling which is rooted in delusion and greed be a
pure action?
LZR: If you gamble with the intention that with the money you
win you want to help refugees, hospitals or poor and starving
people, the motivation is compassion to benefit others. If one
truly has a pure attitude then the action becomes Dharma.
BL: But wouldn’t gambling be an unskillful action, even if
one gambles to help others?
LZR: The natural action of gambling is itself clean. If it is
done with compaassion and the intention is to use the money to
benefit others, then it is wisdom. Knowing that it is done with
compassion for others it becomes Dharma. There is both compassion
and wisdom.
BL: Rinpoche, you mentioned that to practice Dharma we have
to constantly think of impermanence and death. Wouldn’t this lead
one to develop a morbid attitude to life. Isn’t this
negative?
LZR: Actually, Buddhism is very positive. Bodhicitta makes life
unbelievably beneficial. Not only can one achieve an Y happiness
one wishes, one can also cause many: others to be happy and help
create the cause for enlightenment. That Is the beauty of Dharma.
With bodhicitta we get great fulfillment and satisfaction in
whatever we do, be it our career, doing a retreat and practicing
Dharma or spending leisure time with the family. So there is beauty
and joy in life. The Buddha’s teaching is always positive.
For instance in the Lam-rim teachings there is mention of the
preciousness of human life. It explains how we can achieve
happiness in future lives, liberation from samsara and achievement
of ultimate enlightenment. Each of these happinesses is more
precious than a mountain of diamonds or a whole sky filled with
millions of dollars. So we look at this life as precious and
wonderful. We then begin to ask how this human birth can give such
unbelievable opportunity for us to realize our Buddha nature. All
these opportunities create the cause for our happiness and that of
numberless other sentient beings. Well, that’s the beauty of
life.
But we also need to face reality. For instance, if we want to
buy gold we need to differentiate the real from the false. If we
don’t we may end up cheated and regret our actions. Similarly, we
need to understand the reality of existence and recognize that
impermanence, disease and old age are part of life. The nature of
samsara is the reality of life. Rather than ignoring it, it is
better to learn about its true nature and be aware of it. This will
make us develop the strong inspiration to be free from samsara.
BL: What is the final spiritual goal for Buddhists?
LZR: The final spiritual goal for Buddhists is enlightenment.
But firstly we must learn to see attachment and clinging as the
main cause of suffering, like a chain which continuously ties us to
samsara. Then there will arise a strong renunciation of the
suffering realms of samsara. The Dharma practitioner will want to
seek lasting happiness and not temporary happiness. This is seeking
final liberation from the suffering of samsara. With this
realization of samsara we will enter the path to full liberation or
enlightenment.
It is also Impor tant for Buddhist to note that the very purpose
of our life is to benefit other sentient beings. That is our
ultimate spiritual goal in life. We practice meditation so that we
can develop ourselves spiritually in order that we can make
ourselves useful for other sentient beings. When we develop
bodhicitta we cherish this life, take care of it and keep it busy
for the benefit of others. Realizing; that the nature of life is
impermanence and suffering will have incredible benefits; it is the
basic meditation that we can use to immediately cut the emotional
problems of the mind. When the mind is completely overwhelmed by
desires and we dont get what we want, anger will arise to harm
oneself and others, including family, friends and other sentient
beings. But by realizing that the reality of life is suffering we
begin go see that there is no point to follow our emotional mind.
This is the understanding that the reality of life is suffering as
explained in the Four Noble Truths.