why doesnt Theravada recognise Amitabha Buddha & other Pusa

last SG · 2009-09-21T15:09:47+00:00

What do you mean by recognise other persons?He is self-awoken, so, he did not need to, and will not recognise other teachers.However he has many students who...

Louis dave36 SG

I am just perplexed that why doesnt the Theravada tradition recognise Amitabha Buddha & other Bodhisattvas like Manjusri and Kuan Shi Yin?

since it is uttered and expounded by the Buddha, then why doesnt their tradition recognise?

An Eternal Now SG

Theravada and Mahayana have different canon.

Louis dave36 SG

Theravada and Mahayana have different canon.

Mahayana was setup after the second council isnt it, much later than the Theravada tradition.

I feel that if it was uttered and expounded by the Buddha, it should be recognised unless it is not.

Wongsanz SG

interesting.... what's the reasons they don't recognise?

JitKiat SG

This has been extensively discussed in the academic circle i.e. whether Mahayana is uttered and expounded by the Buddha himself. I have read about Master Sheng Yen & Yin Shun's opinions in this and would like to highlight some important points:

References

http://www.longquanzs.org/articledetail.php?id=5139

http://www.yinshun.org.tw/books/41/yinshun41-56.html

Master Sheng Yen: 佛教主张“依法不依人”的精神。佛教相信：非佛说的未必就不是佛法（如弟子等说的），佛法也未必全由佛的口舌来说（如佛的放光、神变、举手、投足、看护病人等）。因此，佛的生活、佛的言教，以及经过了佛所印可的弟子们的对话，也都成了佛法，这在律部及阿含部中，随处可以见到

Master Yin Shun:

「不違法相，是即佛說」，本於「佛語具三相」，是結集『阿含經』所持的準繩。如『成實論）卷一（大正三二‧二四三下）說：

「是法根本，皆從佛出。是諸聲聞及天神等，皆傳佛語。如比[毘]尼中說：佛法名佛所說，弟子所說，變化所說，諸天所說。取要言之，一切世間所有善語，皆是佛說」。

『成實論』是一部容忍大乘的聲聞論典。從『阿含』及『毘尼』所見，有佛說的，有（聲聞）弟子們說的，有諸天說的，也有化人說的。但「聲聞及天神等皆傳佛語」，他們只是傳述佛所說的，所以概括的說，一切都是佛說。『成實論』的見解，與大乘經的見解一致，如『小品般若波羅蜜經』卷一（大正八‧五三七中）說：

「佛諸弟子敢有所說，皆是佛力。所以者何？佛所說法，於中學者，能證諸法相[性]；證已，有所言說，皆與法相不相違背，以法相力故」。

弟子們所說的法，不是自己說的，是依於佛力──依佛的加持而說。意思說，佛說法，弟子們照著去修證，悟到的法性，與佛沒有差別，所以說是佛力（這是佛加持說的原始意義）。龍樹 Nagarjuna解說為：「我等當承佛威神為眾人說，譬如傳語人。……我等所說，即是佛說」。弟子們說法，不違佛說，從佛的根源而來，所以是佛說。這譬如從根發芽，長成了一株高大的樹，枝葉扶疏。果實纍纍，當然是花、葉從枝生，果實從花生，而歸根究底，一切都從根而出生。依據這一見地，『諸法無行經』說：「諸菩薩有所念，有所說，有所思惟，皆是佛之神力。所以者何？一切諸法，皆從佛出」。『文殊師利所說摩訶般若波羅蜜經』說：「能如是諦了斯義，如聞而說，為諸如來之所讚歎；不違法相，是即佛說」。『海龍王經』說：「是諸文字，去來今佛所說。……以是之故，一切文字諸所言教，皆名佛言」。『發覺淨心經』說：「所有一切善言，皆是如來所說」。所以依大乘經「佛說」的見解，「大乘是佛說」，不能說「是佛法而不是佛說」！

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When it comes to Amitabha Buddha & Sukavathi. It was mentioned by Nagarjurna as an Easy Path. Subsequently, the small Amitabha sutra was translated by Kumarajiva and Xuan Zang. That means even the pureland teaching is recognized & certified to be valid by the 3 historical figures above.

Louis dave36 SG

some critics said that chanting to Amitabha Buddha is akin to like Christian's promise of heaven if accept Jesus.

Weychin SG

There was an old lady who used to look after the toilet next to my shop a few years ago. Before she passed on , apparently she knew she was going to go, she started to playt the Amitabha chants a few months before . For a person who has little education and spend most of lives trying to make ends meet. Would you deny the only salvation available to them? Hopefully, when one passes on, one would be able hold Amitabha chant in their mind .

JitKiat SG

Pureland is not as easy. It is unlike promise of heaven. There are different levels of faith/vow, as well as different levels of concentration in chanting Amitabha during the moment of death. Upon rebirth of pureland, there are also many different levels as a result.

In Master Ou Yi's commentary of Amitabha sutra:

Faith - faith in oneself, faith in sutra/Amitabha Buddha, faith in cause, faith in consequence, faith in arising of sukavathi, faith in non-duality (信自, 信他，信因，信果，信事，信理）

Vow - Vow to leave the Saha World, Vow to be reborn in pureland. 厌离娑婆，欣求极乐

Practise - whole-hearted chanting of Amitabha's name 一心不乱

According to Master Ou Yi, whether to be reborn, depends on faith/vow ... how high the resultant level, depends on practise

To go to heaven, there is no need to vow to leave Saha World.

Imagine Sukavathi is at one radio frequency, we need to tune our thought at the same frequency to receive the signal. If our thought is tuned in to the Saha World channel ... how to be reborn?

Blueraya SG

The Buddha has first preached the Four Noble Truth and thus started the Thervanda Tradition and it was only later on, when the time is ripe for spreading Mahayana there are certain group were the suitable candidates. If i am not wrong it, it started from the preaching of the MahaPramitia Sutra, the Mahayana Tradition started. Each will emphiaise that they followed the complete teaching. But who is right, must use wisdom to discrimate.

According to Je TsongKha asked Lord Manjushri, there are so many schools and different views of emptiness, whose thought must one depend in order to pervice the emptiness and gain Buddhahood. Manjushri replied that one must depend on the Nagarjuna's view the Middle Way (Mulamadhyamakakarika) in order to gain Full Enlightement.

Weychin SG

Theravada or Mahayana are vehicles, they all help deliver ! Difference lies in aspiration and skillful means. Suitability of practice differs for each individual in his/her environment. Do not get too caught up in "dogma", it breeds morbidity. Mindfulness is required in either.

Blueraya SG

U are right as Buddha spread different teachings and tailored according to the wisdom and the requirements of the different sentinet beings. like in a resturant, some like noodles, some like fried rice as their choice. but they serve the same purpose in fillng stomach and satisfying taste buds. Still Thervanda, Mahayana & Vajrayana has differences.

Mahayana also imbue with Thervanda teachings as what is common like 4 noble truth, 12 dependent links and 37 branches of enlightenent etc. What Thervanda (Hinayana) doesn't have is the Bodhicitta or Bodhi Xin which is an important requirement to Door of Mahayana. Mahayana doesn't take up the pursing enlightenment for own sake like the Hinayana does

Vajrayana has both Mahayana and Hinayana teaching, What Mahayana does not have is the 4 unccommon practise of Vajrayana. Viualise oneself as indifferent as Buddha deity.

I am trying to mean that there is difference in speed upon the vehicle one choose to take up. this is an anology to one travelling is on bicycle, another on a car and another one on fighter jet.

soul2soul SG

I am just perplexed that why doesnt the Theravada tradition recognise Amitabha Buddha & other Bodhisattvas like Manjusri and Kuan Shi Yin?

since it is uttered and expounded by the Buddha, then why doesnt their tradition recognise?

That's because Amitabha Buddha and all the boddhisattas are not found inside the Pali Cannon - as simple as that. The only Boddhisattas mentioned in the Pali Cannon are the Buddha himself (referring to himself before he attains Nibbana) and the future Buddha - Matteya who is believed to be in the Tusita heaven now.

soul2soul SG

interesting.... what's the reasons they don't recognise?

An Eternal Now SG

That's right -- different canon, simple as that.

Louis dave36 SG

so Theravada and Mahayan were created after the passing away of the Buddha wasn't it.

is this considered as schism in the sangha, that Theravada and Mahayana were split up. This wasnt what the Buddha had in mind when he expounded the dhamma, because during his time, there were no theravada nor mahayana.

soul2soul SG

so Theravada and Mahayan were created after the passing away of the Buddha wasn't it.

There wasn't a "theravada" or "mahayana" during Buddha's time. There is only 1 dhamma.

JitKiat SG

Even during the Buddha's time, there are groupings within the Sangha, some prefer meditation away from crowd (Mahakasyapa), some prefer hearing the teaching of Buddha (Ananda), some focus on precepts. Although they have different inclinations, all of them can still achieve enlightenment and respect each other. Even today, we still see frequent happy meetings of different traditions of Buddhism. A wise buddhist of a specific tradition will never attack or belittle another tradition.

JitKiat SG

本是同根生，相煎何太急

Weychin SG

Excerpt from Encyclopedia Brittanica{Buddha, "Upon enlightenment, Buddha,knew what he understood is so profound it would difficult for others to fathom. The god Brahma descended from his heaven and asked him to teach, pointing out that humans are at different levels of development, some would benefit from his teaching"}

What I wish to point out is"humans are at different levels of development" , everybody have the potential of buddhahood, however,you rise to your level of understanding, your own clinging,your comfort zone, your dogma created by your level of understanding,your definitions of "delusion". Why do I cling to my reality of delusion? As of yet I am unable see the absurdity of my delusions, worst still, I impose my views, for I "KNOW" it is right!

Rooney9 SG

the question I am going to ask is, are some sutras really expounded by the Buddha, after some 2500 years ago, when oral transmission was how buddhism transmitted some 500 years after the passing of the Buddha.

how authentic was it said to be expounded by the Buddha himself?