Consciousness in the context of Buddhist definition usually
means subject-object duality and discriminations.
By that definition, I wouldn't say that that which realises is
(dualitic) consciousness, but is pure awareness. Dualistic
consciousness transforms into insight/wisdom -- aware of its own
nondualistic nature as pure awareness. (Thusness defines the great
round mirror wisdom as such: it is a wisdom that transformed
totally the wrong view of phenomena as out there or in here to
all as the manifestation of our pristine awareness due its
emptiness nature. It is the experience of Dharmakaya.)
In other words, it is not the conceptual mind which apprehends
the truth, it is the intuitive mind, the clear light mind, it is
luminosity itself which apprehends its two-truth (the
inseparability of luminosity and emptiness).
The professor said: "还没有起意识分别这是什么的时候，它就明明白白看见，这是属于前五识加上意识的现量
..."
From my understanding the appearance before mental perception is
not called识. As my Taiwanese
teacher said something like, 一切唯心所现, 唯识所变。
Hence, 识 is referring to subject/object duality, and
referring to discriminations. Our true nature is present even PRIOR
to consciousness/识, prior to 分别/discriminations.
The 看见一片绿色、一片红色，还没有起意识分别这是什么的时候 -- that awareness is
Buddha-Nature itself. It should be noted that the 'seeing' is
inseparable from colours, the hearing is inseparable from sound. So
it's not really 'seeing colours' -- the seeing and colour cannot be
separated, there is no seer apart from seen.
The 还没有起意识分别这是什么的时候, 它就明明白白看见，这是属于前五识加上意识的现量 -- I find this a
confusing statement. Before discrimination and duality, there is no
识 -- 识 only arise when there is the perception of a false Subject
and Object dichotomy, when there is 分别. Also, the 还没有起意识分别这是什么的时候,
它就明明白白看见 -- does not require a 五识加上意识的现量 -- Any sense of a
'knower' is an illusion -- no watcher exists or is needed,
transient sensory awareness itself knows and rolls. All is One
Mind. Mind is not a separate knower, as Thusness said perfectly:
一切的呈现即'心',有了彼与此的分别即'识'.
The next thing is, the author seems to be suggesting that seeing
true nature means '6th consciousness reflecting the unconditioned',
as if we need to turn our attention away from the conditioned
phenomena to some sort of void. But this is a false illusion -- any
turning away from any manifestation towards some other state deemed
as 'pure' is an illusion, because All is IT! All there is is
Appearance and all Appearance is the Source, there is no one
'purest' state, all are equally pure, only conditions differ. Dust
is the mirror, transient manifestation is the miraculous
manifestation of our true nature. (see below)
And then the author says,
意识知道它这是一片绿色，这是现量，这是世俗意义上的现量，它不是圆满的，不是真如，它是法相唯识学讲的性境。那缘真如的时候，就连这个相也没有...
and he said that 相是直觉的，现量的。 which I believe he is suggesting that,
awareness of forms, colours, and so on are 'not ultimate', not
'thusness', and in the realisation of thusness there is no form.
While it is true that subject/object dichotomy and hence dualistic
projection ceases upon realisation, this is only talking about
dualistic conceptual projection, it is not talking about sensory
awareness. There is no denying of our sensory awareness, which is
in essence Buddha-Nature! Thusness/Awareness/Buddha-Nature does not
exist in a split-off, undifferentiated state: it is in fact all
these transience and appearances. Emptiness is Form, Form is
Emptiness.
Also, our True Nature/True Mind is not a particular object
arising in awareness. So I do not see how 6th consciousness (in his
definition, Mind?) can 'reflect' our 'true nature' as if our 'true
nature' is an object external/separate from Mind and can be
'observed'. Please keep in mind that realising our true
nature is NOT knowing 'something' -- that is duality!!
Your true nature is Mind, which is the light that though does not
possess a particular form or attribute, illuminates all things...
you are not a (particular) object. As the Masters said, Mind is
Buddha! Seeking something external to Mind is being an
outer-path/externalist. Our true nature is not an object, our true
nature is the Mind (and I don't mean conceptual thoughts, but
awareness). In fact there is no objects external to Mind, any
notion of 'external things' are merely illusions/projections, due
to the belief in the false subject/object dichotomy. All
appearances that we experience is Mind (our true nature), including
sights, sounds, touch, smell, taste, thoughts/projections.
So what is Mind/心 or our true nature? Mind/True Nature is not an
object, our true nature is the mirror-like Awareness in which
everything, including 6th consciousness and all consciousness
arise/is reflected clearly. But the mirror is also not apart from the reflections, standing back
and watching. It is important to take note here that the Mind is
not a Knower/Witness/Watcher, but rather, it is the knowing
inseparable from everything that is arising moment to
moment. All reflections is not separated or apart from the
mirror, to be more accurate they are actually not 'in' the mirror,
rather all reflections are reflections OF the mirror-mind --
everything is just luminous clarity in nature, with emptiness as
its essence. The dust is the mirror, there is no
separation. We should not in any way deny transient
experience -- they are all self-luminous expression of our nature.
As Thusness said, Practice is neither going after
the mirror nor escaping from the maya reflection; it is to clearly
'see' the 'nature' of reflection. To see that there is really no
mirror other than the ongoing reflection due to our emptiness
nature. Neither is there a mirror to cling to as the background
reality nor a maya to escape from. Beyond these two extreme lies
the middle path -- the prajna wisdom of seeing that the maya is our
Buddha nature. (my further 'commentary': the mirror
is not a separate background apart from reflections as what might
be mistaken after an initial glimpse of buddha-nature, but rather,
all dust is the mirror, and as what Zen Master Dogen and Hui-Neng
says -- Impermanence is Buddha-Nature) Before a moment of
thought/perception, there is just pure awareness -- just the pure
sensations, thoughts, without dualistic
inference/conceptualisation... at that moment it is simply our
luminosity.
A very simple analogy my Taiwan teacher gave was that someone
asked him "what is awareness?" -- he poked him with a sharp object,
he immediately withdraw his hands. My teacher asked him why did you
withdraw? He said "I was in pain!" My teacher then told him, the
pain and spontaneous withdrawing is itself the
awareness/luminosity/natural intelligence of our Buddha Nature, but
the "I was in pain" was a dualistic inference/perception/thought.
It is a projection, a concept, it is not reality.
So what is awakening? It is simply: waking up from the dream of
duality into reality beyond conceptual fabrication. It is waking up
to the the ongoing flow of awareness manifesting as the
self-luminous world, that has always been so, but misperceived due
to our belief in the false dream of duality -- thus taking the
mirage/appearance for reality/solid objects or for a real self. In
awakening it is seen that the mirage is just the empty display of
awareness, just vibrating energy patterns, empty of inherent
existence... and are not self-existing 'objects' separate from
'you' (duality).
Nothing has changed, only waking up to What (Always) Is. And
there is no such thing as a Somebody/Something/6th-Consciousness
that is 'Seeing' 'What Is'/'Buddha-Nature'/realising True Nature,
etc -- the self/perceiver/agent/doer/thinker is seen to be false,
non-existent and thus the illusion has fallen away. The false
statement assumes three things: 'Something/Someone' (a subject)
'Seeing' 'What-Is/True-Nature'. All are false concepts, delusory
thoughts (妄念)... much of our ideas of what enlightenment is is just
妄念. Rather, there is no subject/self/perceiver, and there is no
'Seeing' 'Buddha-Nature/What Is' -- Buddha-Nature/What Is = the
Seeing, and the seeing is just the colours, the hearing is just the
sound. It's that simple! It's the ongoing awareness/presence that
has never left (and is) us, ever, and is our luminous nature that
is never lost in the countless rebirths in samsara... apparently
covered/obscured by our delusions up like clouds cover the sun, but
in actuality it never was obscured -- our delusion was never real,
the sun has never 'dimmed', awareness never stops functioning and
allows our life to go on. Our Buddha Nature is never lost a single
bit in ignorance, nor does it increase by the minutest bit in
enlightenment. As Avatamsaka Sutra says, Buddha, Mind and Sentient
Being are not three different things. There is fundamentally no
difference in essence of 'enlightened beings' and 'sentient
beings', even though confusion (belief in a self) arises for the
sentient being and never arises for the 'awakened'.
'Seeing nature' is not seeing anything, it is only the ongoing
authentication with Suchness. It is waking from the dream into
Thusness. There is no separate perceiver of 'buddha-nature' or of
anything. It is waking up and realising that the subject/object
dichotomy is a false mental projection without reality: in reality,
sound hears, scenery sees, thought thinks, never was there a
hearer, seer, thinker.
Many Zen Masters woke up after hearing a loud sound or seeing
something. Our moderator Thusness awakened after hearing the bell
sound 'Tonggg'... in that moment there is a waking up to reality:
there is no hearer, only Presence... who/what awakens? Nothing!
Just waking up from the dream of self/duality into everpresent
Reality, what Always Is. Sound hears, scenery sees, just effortless
self-luminous spontaneous manifestation according to conditions. It
is not an attainment (what is there to attain and who attains? our
true nature Always Is), but the permanent loss of the ignorance of
being a separate self.
This is exactly the same as what a Zen Master said upon his
enlightenment:
“When I heard the sound of
the bell ringing, there was no I,
and no bell, just the ringing.”
But this must occur as an insight, a quantum shift of perception
into the everpresent nature of reality which is beyond conceptual
fabrications and the illusory subject/object dichotomy -- it is not
by effort, not by forcefully doing away the thoughts... even
mindful awareness is only a practice and a means in aiding the
development of insight, but the practice itself is still not the
insight into that (non-dual & empty luminosity) as our
everpresent nature of reality.
As Thusness said in the other thread: In my opinion strong emphasis should also be
place on the idea of why non dualistic and non-inherent view is of
such importance for leading one to right view of non-conceptuality.
Otherwise the dualistic and inherent mind will fabricate various
assumed states of non-conceptuality due to its latent
tendencies. That is to 'transform' a limited view to a
boundless views lies not in doing away totally with concepts but
simply seeing 'non-inherently'. 'Non-conceptuality' and naked
awareness will arise eventually with the stability of this
important condition.
One more thing... not just the 6th consciousness must be
transformed into wisdom. All 8 consciousnesses must be transformed
into wisdom, not just the 6th.
i guess the subject object duality, in buddhism, we should avoid
that, then comes to Non duality, i guess,in chinese, the
corresponded word should be 分别心，yes this is a crucial factor in
buddhism.But besides that, i cannot remember any other thing relate
to the subject object duality.
I think the 心 we should 明心见性，usually means our true nature, i
don't why this question is there, maybe most of people don't know
his true nature, buddhism teach no self, yes, and everything is
delusion, even dharma itself, so we talk about 心，is tricky, is it
real, or just a name ，假名，like in diamond sutra, 是庄严，是非庄严，是名庄严，so
that's just assume it's a name only.
We should discloes to our true nature, it's tricky again, who is
“our”, or i, for ordinary people, they should get no difficulty
with that, but in buddhism, let's just admit that it's a 假名 as
well.
To avoid getting conceptually, i think we should all know which
心 we are refering, to be no self, firstly we should get to know the
self.
So the self is just refering to any one, who is talking who is
smelling, who is walking,
I think this question comes from the basis that many people lost
their self, as i said that's just take it as a 假名，so they do not
really know their selves, in fact they don't like working, but they
force them to think that they like it, they don't like to socialise
with someone they don't like, but for promoting purpose, they force
themselves to think that they like it.The social pressure is
everywhere, to realise your nature, we should get over of the
pressure,