Meaning of Life, Death and Suicide

last SG · 2008-05-06T15:44:07+00:00

Dear Eternal Now and Wanderer,Thank you very much for the reply, help and advice.Appreciate it very much.Thanks,With Best Regards,ahm97sic

Ahm97sic SG

I am looking into the meaning of life, death and suicide and hope that any one who is willing to share the modern Buddhist teaching on life, death and suicide.

I have some knowledge on the traditional Buddhist teaching on life, death and suicide ie the reincarnation and suicide is a sin.

I am looking on the practical issues how a person will decide to live on or choose to die and commit suicide.

I have written my personal thoughts on the meaning of life, death and suicide and the choice between death and live in my blog ahm97sic.blogspot.com

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks.

Ongsoosiang SG

While 1st world people are commiting suicide becos' of some minor problems, people in the 3rd world countries are struggling to survive regardless of the great obstacles they face.Of course it is a sin.

Ahm97sic SG

If one is suffering from a terminal illness which will make one first unable to walk, next paralysed and later unable to think, how would one decide when he or she knows that all these will happen ? Will he or she do all the things that he or she wants to do first and then consider suicide ?

Will it be better to have a good death through suicide instead of living to the very last days when one is only alive with the advanced medicine when one is not even conscious of one's living and causing great distress to family members ?

Ahm97sic SG

When one is healthy, one can take hardship and work for a better live in future.

But when one is terminally sick and there is no cure, it is a different situation.

How would consider his or her options ? Will planned suicide be one viable option ?

Ongsoosiang SG

It is better to die naturally than to commit suicide because to die naturally means one has live life to the fullest.

Ahm97sic SG

In the hospital, one can see how much the seriously ill has to through. Some of the patients are not even concious anymore but they are kept alive by the machines and medication.

Does this mean live life to the fullest ? Or is better to do all the things that one wants to do first while one still have the mental capacity to do so and then one will have a good death through planned suicide ?

cycle SG

I am looking into the meaning of life, death and suicide and hope that any one who is willing to share the modern Buddhist teaching on life, death and suicide.

I have some knowledge on the traditional Buddhist teaching on life, death and suicide ie the reincarnation and suicide is a sin.

I am looking on the practical issues how a person will decide to live on or choose to die and commit suicide.

I have written my personal thoughts on the meaning of life, death and suicide and the choice between death and live in my blog ahm97sic.blogspot.com

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks.

Hi,I think this is actually a very difficult topic, at least for me.

I mean the meaning of life is never a easy one. That was the reason why some of us go to Buddhism because Buddhism tells us what is life, what is sufferings, and how to get out of such sufferings, which leads to a improvement in our life for now as well as our later number of lives, untill ultimate liberation.

So before we can truly understand life, I think it is not easy to give a profoundly correct or simply a outright answers. But as a Buddhist, my humble opinion is maybe at least what we can do is to first break down the picture into parts, then see where it leads to.

So first, why one choose to commit suicide; ie.to ends one's life before it has run its natural course? I can think of only the followings reasons so far:

1. finds no more meanings in life ( ends of relationship, loneliness etc)

2. desperate to run away from harm( bully, abuse,)

3. hatred of life( unfair treaments)

4. fear ( ionically,of impending death ; punishments,)

5. shame ( crime commited or mischiefs done being exposed, reputation tarnished)

6. revenge ( ends of relationships, protest against unfair accusations or punishments)

7. hardships( too poor to substain normal livihood, long illness etc)

8. mentally stressed( depressed, insanity)

So, based on the above possible reasons, maybe we can now see more clearly if it is justified to ends one's life over them, or continue to live on.

Certain problems or situations, are actually rather short term, as they could be improved, some was overrated as they may not be that important as what we thought. Some can be pure misunderstandings, others can be due to our own defilements.

For number7. maybe we cannot say one is weak in character for not withstanding hardships, as different ppl do have different stamina against such, it takes time, outside support, and life experiences( that may be another reason why we should give ourselves more time to face hardship and ride out the problems for our future sake?). But I believe through religions, or right views and right thoughts as in Buddhardarma, it can be possible for one to go through even his final stage of life in peace ( commiting suicide is not end in peace, giving the reasons shown above for such decision), no matter how terrible a predicament he is in. I've seen and heard a few true life cases.

And for no.8., this is most unfortunate. The patient may not be able to help himself out anymore by making the right decision or take the right course of actions. They need medical help as well as friends and families support.

So , by and large, Suicide is never a first option. As for patients whose life are artificially sustain by medical equipments or medicine, there are now Advance Medical Advice where patients could chose to let their lives ends its' natural course. I think this is not commiting suiside, but to refuse to prolong a physical life that has deteroiates beyone repair or consiousness has drop to its final stage. This I think maybe the Moderators could explain more on the 7th and 8th conciousness of our mind.

Ok gtg. I think there was a thread on suicide and its cause and effects here some time ago... This, on karma and suicide, will need more thorough explainations from the Moderators.

Ahm97sic SG

Yes, please share the thoughts on cases 7 and 8 more.

Thanks.

Ahm97sic SG

If one knows that he or she will have unsound mind sometimes in the near future, what will one do ?

Will one try to do all the things that they want to do first before one becomes mentally unsound eg senile dementia and then one choose a good death by planned suicide since one will only bring great burden and distress to family members ? Or should one live on until the last breath with all the machines and medication ?

An Eternal Now SG

In Buddhism, we believe that the root cause of suffering is not from our external circumstances but most importantly our own mind. If we are able to practice the dharma well, we can treat the problem at its root and aleviate one's own suffering. That is what Buddhism is about, suffering and the way to the end of suffering.

The body has its own lifespan, it's inherently problematic and subject to disease and decay. Our wisdom, blessings (fu bao), karma and causes and conditions transcends bodily death. It would be a waste to miss our precious human life and not want to seek the way to liberation. So in view of this, we should not think of suicide but make full use of this human life to cultivate the dharma, gain wisdom, blessings and reduce our own karmic obstructions. If we simply seek an easy escape from our problems (whatever they may be) by suicide, we will not gain in wisdom, and the bad karma simply moves on to the next life. It is also possible for those who died in a suicide to be reborn in the ghost realm.

But with regards to euthanasia due to medical conditions, I think it should be looked upon a case to case basis, and should be the last option.

annoy-you-must SG

Been a long time since I was last here...finally a topic that can spark my interest.

The issue of euthanasia is indeed a tough topic to debate on. When I was in college, we often had discussion on such topics during our GP lessons. This issue is also being increasingly looked at from the Buddhist perspective...however, seemingly few Buddhistic answers proved to be satisfactory for me.

The conventional view holds that if one is to chose sucide as a cowardy way of ending one's problem such as financial hardship, depression over failed relationship, etc, that's foolishness. Not only has one given up hope on any possible solution, one has not solve the problem at all, but merely pushing them to one's loved ones.

But in my own opinion, if a person is already suffering from uncurable degenerative medical condition and is doomed towards a certain torturous death, then chosing premature death should certainly not be considered as a cowardy act, but a courageous act of acceptance. How so?

An uncurable medical condition, as the term suggest, is irreversible. Without a 'solution', such condition cannot even be defined as a 'problem', since every 'problem' has to have a 'solution'. To put it in a rather perssimistic words, one is already doomed towards certain path.

As such, chosing to undergo euthanasia requires a courageous acceptance of one's fate. Why allow yourself to hold any attachment to a life that can only spiral down towards agony and bring more pain and burden to those around you? Is there any point in living a life of constant pain that is doomed towards death anyway?

Yes. In the Buddhist point of view, sucide is a wastage of one's precious human life and such action is akin to throwing away one's precious chance of liberation. I could not agree more. However, a human life with the above described condition has, by logic, no more chance of liberation in this lifetime...much like the beings undergoing much suffering in the hell realm, experiencing so much pain that learning the Dharma is almost impossible.

Having said that, I strongly believe that undergoing euthanasia should be a decision made by oneself in a healthy state of mind, not by any other people, not in any other state of mind (i.e. depressed, dejected ).

As for artificially extending one's life, I think that it is too, a wastage of resources and a sign of attachment, a refusal to let go of a life without quality.

My arguments are not without much loopholes, though. You can always counter that life in itself is already a terminal disease...each and every one of us, weather healthy or not, is going to die anyway.

I admit...for that, I have no answer.

marcteng SG

The meaning of life is this…...You have to live, die, suffer old age, sickness, hunger, cold, heat, unhappiness etc in every lifetime until you end your existence ie Nibbana or the end of suffering.

There is no meaning actually. What adds meaning is the journey to Nibbana ie you strive towards the journey to self discovery and the door to deathlessness in each and every lifetime.

Ahm97sic SG

It is true that buddhists have live, die and suffer to reach Nibbana.

But the question is how do one tells a Buddhist or anyone that is suffering from unbearable pain, bedridden, unable to move any body part and unable to talk or express anything except tears in the eyes that he or she will continue have to suffer for days, weeks, months and years that this is his or her karma, he or she just have to suffer it to reach Nibbana.

If the person is of unsound mind, it might still be possible as he or she is no longer conscious.

However, if the person is of a sound mind, he or she will probably think that he or she should have done all the things first before his or her conditions deteriorate to this unberable state and have a good death through a planned suicide before this.

I wish to share that the book "Final Exits" which discusses the issue of planned or rational suicide for terminally ill patient. The book is available in National Library.

Please share your thoughts when you have finished reading the book.

Thanks.

sofital SG

Good topic.Wanna to share the download link

Buddha's way of Immortal medicine

http://www.mediafire.com/?fsydzi1tbmg

Isis SG

Hello, i believe that there are ways to ease the process of the dying. It depends on the condition of the patients and skills of the doctor, nurse and loved ones If we are close to the person, we can ofter gentle care, encouraging the person to relax and let go of all fears, worries.

Everything is impermanence. If spend time contemplating the fact of impermance, when it comes time to face your own death is easier for someone to help remind you. They might say, " All things must pass - nothing lasts." And you will think, "Yes, that's true." Because you have already made yourself familiar with this fact, it becomes easier to admit it, to take it to hear, and to relax a little bit. Without reflecting on impermanence, and taking it to heart, people can be overly attached to things and people as being permanent inf their lives. Then, when something is wrong, they have a difficult time accepting it. They may panic and keep asking, "Why? Why is this happening to me?" Why not?

Even in cases where the disease is quite advanced, there are some cases in which people have survived. Don't give up hope. Talking like this can give the patient power to deal with their illness. Scientific studies in the west hae demonstrated that patients can have some control over their illness trough the power of their mind. If you say instead "sorry, there is no hope." Then the patient thinks, " Why should i even bother to take the medicine? " At that point the patient only experience fear, and gives up hope. This decrease their abilities to fight the disease.

It is good to find a middle way in between these extremes. Honesty is desirable. However, attempting to be too honest is not really being honest sometime. For example, if you say " i think your disease is incurable.", that may reflect what you have truly think at that time. But what happens if that person later recovers? Does that mean you have lied? If the disease us really bad, we could say that "Your disease is not an easy disease to cure, but we need to try. We both need to have hope. We try our best and you can try your best." The idea is to try avoid cutting all hope.

Once the situation is unavoidably hopeless, and the person is facing death, we can change our approach. We address the problem of the best way to relieve their suffering. These days, doctors have very strong drugs that relieve the pain associated with dying. These drugs are effective but it can cloud the patient's mind. The mental state to have when one is dying is important. ( u might want to read up on it ). It may becomes confusing to how to adminster the drugs. There is no fixed answer. The doctor need to use your own wisdom to determine what is most appropriate. How much pain can that person deal with, without affecting their state of mind.

Sometime the religious beliefs of the patient are actually increasing fear at the end of life, instead of giving comfort. In the Buddhist tradition, when some approaches death, there is one quality that is extremely important, and that is to have absolved one's self- literally. It does not matter to whom you have said sorry, or who you imagine that you have expressed your apology to. The most important thing is that you have feel afterward that you have actually let go of whatever you may feel that you have done wrong, apologize sincerely, and then imagine that it is all purified, gone, forgiven. You need to completely let go of those thoughts so that they no longer burden you. It makes you feel very carefree- unburdened, clear and calm. Even if they are not able to let go 100 percent of their fears and worries, they may be able to let go 20 or 30 percent. If they are intelligent and open-minded, they may be able to let go 90 percent. But even 10 to 20 percent will help. We hope to help them feel at ease, let go of their fear of punishment, ease all the attachment that are causing them pain. We help them to die at peace- skillfully.

With references: Medicine and Compassion by Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche with David R. Shlim, M.D.

Ahm97sic SG

Doctors and nurses, and religious leaders always try to give one hope when one is faced with a terminal illness.

It is true that miracle does happen when one who is terminally ill has recovered miraclely especially in the case of cancer patients but are there miracle cases where people who are in advanced stage of senile dementia recovered miraclely or are there miracles for all terminal illnesses ?

It is true that today's doctors have very powerful medication for controlling pain but these medications will make the patients' sleep and sleep which is similar to losing consciousness. The doctors can only help to make the dying process less torturing.

But should one consider rational suicide when one is diagnosed with a terminal illness which will be debilitating ? Rational suicide does not mean that one should commit immediately when one is diagnosed with the terminal illness.

Instead one should sit down and think carefully what one has done in the past and what one needs or wishes to do in the remaining days when one still has the mental capability and physical ability.

Once, one's wishes have been fulfilled and one will prepare a good death through planned/rational suicide before one's condition has deteriorated to the stage where one loses one's mental capacity and physical ability and one still has to live on for days, weeks, months and years.

In the hospital, one can see patients who are bedridden, urinate and pass motion uncontrollably, unable to move any body parts, unable to talk or express, only tears in their eyes, with unbearable pain, mentally unsound yelling for their loved ones. Those fortunate ones still have their loved ones around them BUT there are those unfortunate ones who have their children or family members abondoned them in the hospital to let them die in loneliness.

Does one has a choice to decide one's ending if one knows what is going to happen when one is termainally ill ? Will rational suicide be a more rational choice or should one try to live to the very last breath no matter how mentally and physically tormenting with the advanced machines and medication ?

Short Ninja SG

In my opinion on this suicide topic I feel that your state of mind at the moment of death is all that matters.When you are terminally ill to a point that your vital organs starts to break down there is no science or miracle that can save you and you wish you were already dead.If mercy killing is acceptable in some countries then I dont see how suicide can be wrong under certain circumstances.

Isis SG

Originally posted by Ahm97sic:

This choice to end your own life is not a personal choice but also subjected to legisation in the country. You can get the doctor or the person who ended your life in trouble. In buddhism, it is karmic that results in the suffering. I'm not saying that the patient deserves it but it is a law of causes and effects. We have to have loving-kindness and compassion to help ease their suffering.

For those who lose consciousness/in a coma, we don't know for sure if they know what is going or are they suffering tremendously within. They could hear, they could feel but couldn't speak. It has to be evaluated cases by cases basis. Other than alleviation of pain with medical help, anyone can take care of a person's well being by giving them tender loving care, holding theirs hands with kindness or talk to them. Even if they are in a coma but that does not mean that they can't hear or feel with their body. We can still take care of them. They could feel it.

I think you know in life, death is natural and inevitable, we don't know when and how. We can only ease the process of the dying. If you are asking whether ending life of someone suffering tremendously is right. I'm afraid i don't know unless i have came across such a situation myself. It is a difficult choice to make. There are many different situation and reasons that surrounded the patient. We have to discern according to the situation, in which we have understand thoroughly, for instances the reasons behind the wishes of the patient.

It is unfortunate that some people choose to die because that they have given up hope. We can never know what will happen in the end. We have to try because it is possible.

The ability to die in a dignified manner has everything to do with how we spend our life. We can't all of a sudden notice that our time to die is coming near and try to make ourselves feel a certain way- at that point it's too late. We need to prepare ourselves while we have the time, which while we are still alive, before we actually being to die.

Ahm97sic SG

Meaning of life means what sort of living does one want. Is it for the comfort, material desires and pleasures, achievement, status, power, kinship or love ?

Meaning of death means the end of everything for an ordinary person but for a buddhist there is life and hope after death. So, if whether one dies naturally or one has rational suicide is the same for an ordianry person. So, if a terminally ill person with no cure chooses planned suicide, one is making a rational decision to end his or her life.

However, to a Buddhist, it is one's karma that one is beset by a terminal illness and one has to live with it and die naturally ie live to the last breath no matter how mentally and physically tormenting it will be and one will try to leave this life with no belonging of attachment to this world when one dies.

While planned suicide will be treated as one is not willing to accept the karma of the terminal illness and one is considered to be have created another karma and one might be reborned in the ghost arena. Please correct me as I do not have much Buddhist knowledge.

If this is the case, how does Buddhist teaching tell one how to live and endure with the terminal illness with debilitating conditions until one lives to the last breath.

For instance, a person with multiple sclerosis, he or she will lose the physical and mental abilities one by one. It will be very distressing and a great burden to the family members. Given the knowledge that the illness has no cure and the conditions will only deteriorate days by days, months by months and years by years, will planned suicide be a rational choice ?

Ahm97sic SG

Can anyone please provide any good online sources of buddhist teaching on life, death, suicide and the counselling of terminally ill patient till the patient dies ie buddhist monks who work as counsellors to terminally ill patients ?

Thanks.