where do we go after we die?

last SG · 2008-06-25T21:47:32+00:00

And there are many understandings heaven. Most Christians understanding is some kind of physical place far far from us, but if it is a physical incarnation,...

An Eternal Now SG

This is a Buddhist forum, but for the sake of sharing knowledge I hope this is ok with others... to share certain articles on what Christian mysticism and Christian teachings point to. I'm however, not implying that Buddhism and Christianity are the same paths, because they are not really the same path. Christianity and all monotheistic religions are paths of submission to the divine, while Buddhism emphasizes the aspect of insight.

There is a serious lack of understanding of what mysticism is about, and probably most Christians you encounter will never even have heard of the word. Mysticism is at the heart of Christianity since its very beginning, many great Christians in history has been great mystics. Wherever there is Christianity, there are mystics.

And 'mystic' has nothing to do with occulticism, supernatural, or the weird weird stuff. Nothing of that sort. Read on, and you'll know.

http://www.frimmin.com/faith/mysticismintro.php

The '12 apostles'

To many modern Christians, words like "meditation," "mystic," and "mysticism" bring to mind Eastern religions, not Christianity. Certainly Eastern religions are known for their mysticism; however, mysticism is not only a vital part of the Christian heritage as well, but it is actually the core of Christian spirituality. Mysticism simply means the spirituality of the direct experience of God. It is the adventure of "the wild things of God."

The direct experience of God is a kind of knowing, which goes beyond intellectual understanding. It is not a matter of "belief." It is marked by love and joy, but it is not "emotional experience." In many ways, it is better described by what it is not. To describe what it is, we must use metaphors—the marriage of the soul to Christ, the death of the "old man" and birth of the "new man," being the "body of Christ."

Jesus proclaimed "I and the Father are one," (Jn. 10.30) showing the world what the union of God and man can be. Christian mysticism is about nothing else but this transforming union.

Christ is the sole end of Christian mysticism. Whereas all Christians have Christ, call on Christ, and can (or should) know Christ, the goal for the Christian mystic is to become Christ—to become as fully permeated with God as Christ is, thus becoming like him, fully human, and by the grace of God, also fully divine. In Christian teaching this doctrine is known by various names—theosis, divinization, deification, and transforming union.

A common misconception about mysticism is that it's about "mystical experiences," and there are many volumes on such experiences in religious literature. But true mysticism is not focussed on "experiences" (which come and go) but with the lasting experience of God, leading to the transformation of the believer into union with God.

To know God directly shows that mysticism is different from any passive or legalistic kind of Christianity. It means:

Some readers may find this unsettling. Maybe you believe it doesn't apply to you, because you "know" that your church is purer and more correct than others. Even if that were true, is it a substitute for knowing God directly? Or, you might also feel that trusting the Bible alone gives you knowledge of God directly from the Source. But it was written by mystics, listening to God speaking his Word in their hearts. Is it possible for you to read it directly, without the conceptions of your language, time, culture, and personal history? Are you sure you wouldn't understand it very differently if you were reading it, say, in third-century Damascus?

The religion we call "Christianity" changes, but God is eternal. Mystical faith wants to know this unchanging God to whom Christianity leads us, the One behind the beliefs and the words, the One whom beliefs and words cannot describe. We want to follow Jesus' example more closely, and go beyond the religion about Jesus, and take the religion of Jesus: the knowledge of the Father and unconditional love he had, and urged us to have.

I believe that everyone who wants to love unconditionally is a mystic. All children are born mystics, and if you were once a child, you were once a mystic. Christian mysticism is following the example of Christ as he followed the Father. And mysticism is not by any means restricted to Christianity: the Bible says, “everyone who loves is begotten of God, and knows God.” (1 Jn. 4.7) God speaks in various ways, in every time and every place to "whosoever will." Other pages on this site treat non-Christian mysticism.

Mystics range the gamut of walks of life, from intellectual priests such as Frs. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and Matthew Fox, to laywomen like Bernadette Roberts and Katherine Nelson. The mystic way is old, but timeless—it is alive, and ever-new for each one who chooses it. It may be inviting you to begin this adventure of divine transformation and discovery.

The term mysticism derives from The Mystical Theology, a tiny treatise written by the greatest Christian writer of the sixth century, Dionysius the Areopagite, a.k.a. Pseudo-Dionysius or St. Denys [the Areopagite]. But Dionysius is in no way the "founder" of Christian mysticism. That honor belongs to none but Jesus the Christ himself. But there was mysticism long before Jesus was born. God "strolled in the Garden" with man (Heb. 'adam). Jacob saw heaven opened. God spoke to Joseph through dreams. Moses communed with God on Sinai. David lost himself in dancing for the Lord.

But when Jesus declared "I and the Father are one," (Jn. 10.30) he proclaimed in himself the union of God and humankind, and he offers it to all who follow him (he gave the power to become sons of God to all who believe. (Jn. 1.12).

From there, the mystic heart is seen in the letters of the apostles: Paul reached the divinized state of losing his "self": I no longer live, but Christ lives in me! (Gal. 2.20) James wrote that every good and perfect gift comes from the Father of Lights, in whom there is no variation nor shadow of turning. (Jas. 1.17) Peter proclaimed that Christ even descended to hell to liberate imprisoned souls, (1 Pet. 3.19) and John understood the most sublime truth of God's essence: God is Love! (1 Jn. 4.8,16). This is only the beginning. Every century has been influenced by Christian mystics—from apostles and martyrs, Church Fathers and Desert Mothers, to monks and nuns of religious orders, to the lay mystics—men and women and boys and girls in every century, in every denomination, in every walk of life.

Here's an old post by someone who posted 2 years ago, from his own personal transcendental experiences.

Is god a thing?

GOD is Spirit according to the Bible. What is spirit, you might say? I can only speak based on my own relationship with God and I tell you that I have no wish to define God for you or anybody because as far as I am concern, GOD is beyond's any man's comprehension and you only communicate and have a relationship / be aware of God in your own life.

How a man ends up being aware and have a relationship with God is by being "born of the spirit." I certainly know that I was born again. When you are born again, "angels" and "heaven" and your whole being rejoices.

It is not much different then when a baby is born, except that this is personal. You are the one that rejoices with the "heavenly beings."

I put them all in " " because you might have a different understanding of those words in " " that I used.

Many Christians here cannot accept what I say, even though it was Jesus who said, "You must be Born Again" and "You must be born of the Spirit" and insists that it is simply "believe, have faith" and not a "new birth" in you (the other school hope that as long as you believe you then assume you have new birth Rolling Eyes ) As if you need to hope and not know something so obvious as a new birth in yourself.

I believe that Enlightenment has the same effect. If you are Enlightened please tell me what it is like.

Posted this last month, slightly edited:

QN: I suddenly have this thinking today and would like you all to comment on this.

Whats your purpose of doing merits.

From day one, you are trying to accumulate merits to cultivate your widsom, compassion etc.

You always strive to do more good merits.

What if one day lets say your doing of good for like 1 year is gone(Is it possible that your merits will be gone?)

Then suddenly you feel whats the objective of doing merits.

The only thing that I can think of is that I have made the difference by doing good in this physical world and I can cultivate my good roots within(Anyone can add in more?)

Sometimes I feel that when I am doing good, i suddenly feel a certain emptiness. Its like emptiness. Then I jump straight back to reality.

What do you all think. Please give me your advise/comments so I could be enlightened.

Can anyone point me to websites regarding the doing of merits. Like donating to temple, helping out etc etc. The purpose.

Thanks

Forrest

--------------------------------------

There are two types of blessings... there is leaking blessing and non-leaking blessing (leaking blessing = you lou fu, non-leaking blessing = wu lou fu)

True merits is 'non leaking'... it does not leak away and is like a small seed that produces a tree with an abundance of fruits. We must cultivate this kind of blessings.

If for example we give without attachment to the notion of giver, gift, and recipient -- we do not attach to any thoughts at all, then that act of giving produces immense blessings and merits. It is like the (true) story of the great Arhat Mogallana (or Mahakasyapa?) who took pity of a beggar and asked the beggar to give him some alms (to let him cultivate blessings). The beggar did not know what to give, and because Mogallana had compassion for the beggar, he pointed at the bowl of 3 drops of gruel... the beggar was very happy and joyfully gave the 3 drops of gruel to Mogallana. As a result, he died 7 days later and was born in the heaven of 33 gods for 90+ kalpas.

But if we give for the purpose of our own benefits, or we perform certain things like charity for the purpose of promoting our own fame, that is not true merits. We must be sincere and not attached.

It does not matter how much money you give, just try to help out (in the promotion of dharma or helping out in a monastery) or give whatever you can in your best ability, most importantly must be sincere and not attached in the doing and not attached to anything that happens. It is like 'selfless service' and this is true cultivation. In doing, we practice the dharma.

In the midst of doing or giving or anything -- we are already cultivating true compassion and wisdom. You do not 'accumulate merits' so that you can one day cultivate compassion and wisdom.

http://www.jenchen.org.sg/understa.htm

Real merits

Merits are consequences of the non-orignation and non-cessation of the mind. During the Tang Dynasty in ancient China, Emperor Liang Wu-Ti asked the patriarch Bodhidharma, "Venerable One, I have built many monasteries for the well being of the Sangha and I have also performed many virtuous deeds. What merits have I accumulated? Bodhidharma answered, "You have no merits." Why is that so? It is because when Emperor Liang Wu-Ti performed those acts of giving, he was attached to them. Thus, even though he had performed many virtuous deeds, because he had not cultivated the purity of his mind, he did not attain "non-origination and non-cessation". Therefore, his actions can only be considered as cultivation of blessings, not merits. Without liberation there are no merits. On the other hand, when there is liberation, all virtuous deeds will reap merits.

Not so easy. However, people who have killed others, and practice dharma sincerely, and repenting their deeds, can lighten their karma. They can even attain Arhatship/liberation/nirvana, like Angulimala.

It has a very interesting story (his encounter with Buddha after killing almost a thousand men, Buddha used his psychic power to create an illusion on him, eventually converted him. He later attain enlightenment, arhatship, nirvana) and I highly recommend reading: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.086.than.html

Oops so sorry! Just found that I posted an entirely wrong article.

Updated with the correct posting.

An Eternal Now SG

P.S. there is still a stage beyond transforming union in Christianity, but that is too advanced for now not well known and spoken... that would be the subject best spoken from the personal experience of Bernadette Roberts. I have posted one of her articles in my blog at http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com.

longchen SG

I wonder if Longchen has read the Bardo Thogal (i.e. Tibetan Book of the Dead) before?

I have the book before. Read a bit here and there... not thorough at all.

Just my opinion...

My belief is that immediately upon the death of the physical body and when the physical-based senses have fully shut down, for a brief moment, one will experience the all-pervading Presence of Dharmakaya. Whether it will be expereinced as dark space or bright luminosity or both, I am not too sure... it may depends.

However, not recognising it, due to inexperience, never experiencing it before, etc, the subconscious dream-like imageries should appear after that. I strongly believe that whatever that appears in this stage are just symbolic representations of our own karmic patterns and beliefs.

My belief is that physical body is only just one aspect of the 'being', the other aspects (such as emotional and mental aspects) do not dissolve with physical death and are thus vividly experienced when the limits imposed by the physical form is gone. The remaining aspects, being unpurified, produces the reactions to the resulting imageries and thus propelling the 'being' towards future rebirths.

It has been said that very highly enlightened persons have very few dreams. My take is that this is because their subconscious mind is highly purified of karmic patterns and beliefs... so much so that there is little or no karmic representations as dream symbols... therefore very few dreams.

Just my opinion only though... don't talk it literally.

An Eternal Now SG

I have the book before. Read a bit here and there... not thorough at all.

Just my opinion...

Just my opinion only though... don't talk it literally.

Thanks for your sharing.. yes I do think so regarding Bodhisattvas... it's said they will have little or no dreams, and the dreams that occur are related to their Bodhisattva path... aka 'bodhisattva dreams'.

As for what occurs at death, both the bardo thogal and my master suggests that at the time of death it is possible to recognise the Clear Light. My master use the pure land term 寂光. It is of infinite brightness.

BTW what is the difference between 'Presence of Dark Space' and 'Presence of Bright Luminosity'...

I was just reading that in mystical Judaist tradition of Kabbalah, they seem to suggest different levels of experience of Presence or God, and creation... the top is the purest, the 'absolut-test'. What do you think.

The 'rays of creation' (highest-to-lowest classification):

1. The Limitless Light
2. The Limitless and Boundless
3. The vacuum of pure spirit
4. The Boundless World of Divine Names begins
5. Self-Awareness ("I Am")
6. Wisdom, essence of being (Jehovah)

7. Understanding, Jehovah-Elohim, which means "God of Gods"
8. El, which means God the creator (so clearly Jehovah is not the Creator deity. El, in fact, was an ancient god worshipped in cultures prior to the ancient Jews)
9. Elohim Giboor, "severity" or God the Potent - this is basically karma
10. Eloah Vadaath, "beauty" which means God The Strong - this certainly reminds me of "The Great Perfection." This "beauty" occurs in the center of the Kabballistic classification scheme and indicates BALANCE and HARMONY.
11. Jehovah Tzaboath means "Victory" or "God of Hosts" - this is saying that with the backing force of balance, strength and karma, everything is put in its proper place.
12. Elohim Tzaboath, means "Glory" or "Lord God of Hosts" - this is the reflection of BALANCE and HARMONY beginning to take form in mental awareness. So the Beauty of the infinite nondual experience begins to become appreciated as a Glorious perception.
13. the first Foundation - "omnipotent" which is given the name Shaddai El Chai
14. the first Kingdom - Adonai Melekh which means "God" and actually refers to the Earth and physical existence.

longchen SG

BTW what is the difference between 'Presence of Dark Space' and 'Presence of Bright Luminosity'...

The 'rays of creation' (highest-to-lowest classification):

1. The Limitless Light
2. The Limitless and Boundless
3. The vacuum of pure spirit
4. The Boundless World of Divine Names begins
5. Self-Awareness ("I Am")
6. Wisdom, essence of being (Jehovah)

Just my opinion only...

The dark space is the infinite, borderless and all-pervading quality of Dharmakaya. The luminosity is.. well... the 'brightness' aspect of Dharmakaya. I have experienced both aspects.... perhaps different situation will create a different emphasis.

As for Kabbalah, i am not an expert on it. Bob, is the real expert... but he doesn't come up to my forum nowadays.

regards

An Eternal Now SG

Just my opinion only...

As for Kabbalah, i am not an expert on it. Bob, is the real expert... but he doesn't come up to my forum nowadays.

regards

I see.. thanks for the clarifications :) I get what you mean...

An Eternal Now SG

Not so relevant, but nevertheless interesting... actually certain portions also applies to the topic of A True Modern-Day Story of Karma

------------

http://hhdl.dharmakara.net/hhdlquotes22.html

Select a link to find the Dalai Lama's answer.

A: I understand the Primordial Buddha, also known as Buddha Samantabhadra, to be the ultimate reality, the realm of the Dharmakaya-- the space of emptiness--where all phenomena, pure and impure, are dissolved. This is the explanation taught by the Sutras and Tantras. However, in the context of your question, the tantric tradition is the only one which explains the Dharmakaya in terms of Inherent clear light, the essential nature of the mind; this would seem imply that all phenomena, samsara and nirvana, arise from this clear and luminous source. Even the New School of Translation came to the conclusion that the "state of rest" of a practitioner of the Great Yoga--Great Yoga implies here the state of the practitioner who has reached a stage in meditation where the most subtle experience of clear light has been realized--that for as long as the practitioner remains in this ultimate sphere he or she remains totally free of any sort of veil obscuring the mind, and is immersed in a state of great bliss.

We can say, therefore, that this ultimate source, clear light, is close to the notion of a Creator, since all phenomena, whether they belong to samsara or nirvana, originate therein. But we must be careful in speaking of this source, we must not be led into error. I do not mean chat there exists somewhere, there, a sort of collective clear light, analogous to the non-Buddhist concept of Brahma as a substratum. We must not be inclined to deify this luminous space. We must understand that when we speak of ultimate or inherent clear light, we are speaking on an individual level.

Likewise, when we speak of karma as the cause of the universe we eliminate the notion of a unique entity called karma existing totally independently. Rather, collective karmic impressions, accumulated individually, are at the origin of the creation of a world. When, in the tantric context, we say that all worlds appear out of clear light, we do not visualize this source as a unique entity, but as the ultimate clear light of each being. We can also, on the basis of its pure essence, understand this clear light to be the Primordial Buddha. All the stages which make up the life of each living being--death, the intermediate state, and rebirth--represent nothing more than the various manifestations of the potential of clear light. It is both the most subtle consciousness and energy. The more clear light loses its subtlety, the more your experiences take shape.

In this way, death and the intermediate state are moments where the gross manifestations emanating from clear light are reabsorbed. At death we return to that original source, and from there a slightly more gross state emerges to form the intermediate state preceding rebirth. At the stage of rebirth, clear light is apparent in a physical incarnation. At death we return to this source. And so on. The ability to recognize subtle clear light, also called the Primordial Buddha, is equivalent to realizing nirvana, whereas ignorance of the nature of clear light leaves us to wander in the different realms of samsaric existence.

This is how I understand the concept of the Primordial Buddha. It would be a grave error to conceive of it as an independent and autonomous existence from beginningless time. If we had to accept the idea of an independent creator, the explanations given in the Pramanavartika, the "Compendium of Valid Knowledge" written by Dharmakirti, and in the ninth chapter of the text by Shantideva, which completely refutes the existence per se of all phenomena, would be negated. This, in turn, would refute the notion of the Primordial Buddha. The Buddhist point of view does not accept the validity of affirmations which do not stand up to logical examination. If a sutra describes the Primordial Buddha as an autonomous entity, we must be able to interpret this assertion without taking it literally. We call this type of sutra an "interpretable" sutra.

A: Why is there no creation possible in Buddhism? It has been said that one cannot find living beings at the becoming of the universe for the essential reason that causes have no beginning. If there were a beginning to the universe, there would also have to be a beginning to consciousness. If we accepted a beginning to consciousness, we would also have to accept that its cause has a beginning, a sudden cause which would have instantly produced consciousness; this would lead to a great many other questions. If consciousness had arisen without cause, or from a permanent cause, that cause would have to exist on. a permanent basis, always, or not exist at all, ever. The fact that a phenomenon exists intermittently proves that it depends on causes and conditions. When all the conditions are met, the phenomenon is produced. When those conditions are absent or incomplete, the phenomenon does not appear. As causes have no beginning and stretch back to infinity, the same thing must apply for living beings. Creation is therefore not possible.

Let us now consider a particular phenomenon, a glacier for example: it does indeed have a beginning. How was it created? The outside world appears as a result of the acts of sentient beings who use this world, These acts, or karmas, in turn originate in the intentions and motivations of those beings who have not yet taken control of their minds.

The "creator of the world," basically, is the mind. In the Sutras, the mind is described as an agent. It is said that consciousness has no beginning, but we must distinguish here between gross consciousness and subtle consciousness. Many gross consciousnesses appear as dependents of the physical aggregates, of the body. This is evident when you consider the different neurons and the functioning of the brain, but just because physical conditions are met does not mean that this is enough to produce a perception. In order for a perception which will have the faculty to reflect and know an object to arise, it must have a consubstantial cause. The fundamental consubstantial cause, of the same substance as its result, will in this case be the subtle consciousness. It is this same consciousness or subtle mind which penetrates the parental cells at the moment of conception. The subtle mind can have no beginning. If it had one, the mind would have to be born of something that is not the mind. According to the Kalacakra Tantra, one would have to return to the particles of space to find the fundamental consubstantial causes of the external physical world as well as of the bodies of sentient beings.

Buddhist cosmology establishes the cycle of a universe in the following way: first there is a period of formation, then a period where the universe endures, then another during which it is destroyed, followed by a period of void before the formation of a new universe. During this void, the particles of space subsist, and from these particles the new universe will be formed. It is in these particles of space that we find the fundamental consubstantial cause of the entire physical world. If we wish to describe the formation of the universe and the physical bodies of beings, all we need do is analyse and comprehend the way in which the natural potential of different chemical and other elements constituting that universe was able to take shape from these space particles. It is on the basis of the specific potential of those particles that the structure of this universe and of the bodies of the beings present therein have come about. But from the moment the elements making up the world begin to set off different experiences of suffering and happiness among sentient beings, we must introduce the notion of karma -- that is, positive and negative acts committed and accumulated in the past. It is difficult to determine where the natural expression of the potential of physical elements ends and the effect of karma -- in other words, the result of our past acts -- begins. If you wonder what the relation might be between karma and this external environment formed by natural laws, it is time to explain what karma is.

Karma means, first of all, action. We distinguish one type of karma which is of a mental nature, a mental factor of volition or intention. There also exist physical and oral karmas. To understand the connection between these physical, oral, or mental karmas and the material world, we must refer to the tantric texts. The Kalacakra Tantra in particular explains that in our bodies there are to be found, at gross, subtle, and extremely subtle levels, the five elements which make up the substance of the external world. It is therefore in this context, I believe, that we must envision the connection between our physical, oral, and mental karmas, and the external elements.

An Eternal Now SG

Dalai Lama: ...We can say, therefore, that this ultimate source, clear light, is close to the notion of a Creator, since all phenomena, whether they belong to samsara or nirvana, originate therein....

...All the stages which make up the life of each living being--death, the intermediate state, and rebirth--represent nothing more than the various manifestations of the potential of clear light...

Jesus Christ, from the Gospel of Thomas:

77 Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

50 Jesus said,

"If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.'

If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.'

If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

An Eternal Now SG

Just my opinion only...

As for Kabbalah, i am not an expert on it. Bob, is the real expert... but he doesn't come up to my forum nowadays.

regards

Also, the brightness aspect can differ in intensity and 'expansiveness' right?

It reminds me of a quote from Zen Master Han Shan:

57. The clearer the body, the brighter one’s Buddha Nature shines. In the beginning, we still need the body. It’s like a lamp. The Buddha Nature is this flame. But we may still be conscious of shadows. As we progress we feel that the body is the universe itself and that our Buddha Self shines throughout it like the sun.

http://www.hsuyun.org/Dharma/zbohy/Literature/HanShan/hanshan-maxims.html

This also reminds me of something by Thusness many years back, he said something like, Clarity is the inverse proportion of Self. (i.e. identification with body/mind)

An Eternal Now SG

Found it:

Yes there is no beyond and everything is merely 'This'. When we tok about awareness it has to be only One, this is what Awareness is and it has to be so, non-dual by nature. Therefore opening up is to give up all and everything relating to 'self'. No-self and just 'the everything', clarity and Self is an inverse relationship. The mathematical formula for it:

Clarity = 1/Self

An Eternal Now SG

Struggles, confusions, sufferings.there is no escape. Before the arisen of unarisen factor of enlightenment, progress will not be stable. After that, wonder, bliss, and clarity will springs from nowhere to everywhere -- the fruition of simplicity and ordinariness.

The essence, the Presence can be hardly termed Self. The degree of clarity is the inverse function of Self:
Clarity = (1/Self).

Practice no-self and mindfulness, it is safest. It is difficult not to be egoistic when one attains.

Originally so, nothing attained nothing gained.

Dont move, nothing within, nothing without, spontaneity everywhere.

Mysterious gate opens, valley spirit seen.

Self So.

Ant bites, ouch!

An Eternal Now SG

Furthermore, he is told to awaken to the fact that all these fearsome creatures are not real, but are merely illusions emanating from his own mind. If he can recognize this, they will vanish and he will be liberated. If he can't, he eventually wanders down to the third bardo.

I had a lucid nightmare yesterday.

Was in this room, and suddenly a strong bout of fear came into me, and I had feeling that a monster or a ghost is going to come out of the alley. True enough, a tall fearsome shadowy figure came out of the alley and towards me, and my fear intensify even further.

But suddenly there was this awareness that all these are just the projections of my mind! And I became so present, so aware, and just abide as that present awareness... I did not suppress the fearsome feelings, there's still this feeling arising but theres a recognition that all these are illusion, and if you do not believe in your fear how can it affect you? They also quickly subsided.

Immediately as I become so present and aware, the image of the room and the monster disappears and there was just this bright white light. The tensions continue to arise a while even in this state, but they also slowly subsided.. Because I stopped projecting all the thoughts, only staying as awareness. Soon, I woke up.

I have a feeling that this might be what happens when death comes, except more intense. The dream is almost like a form of bardo state.

Also, a lot of fear are conceptual... we have to be completely present, aware, in order not to continue projecting them or believing in the projections as separate fearful entities. The experience gave me a kind of confidence of the possibility of remaining fearless in the midst of 'fearful situations', though of course I am far from living in that state continously.

I remember I was asking Longchen the other day I met him, I asked something like... does an enlightened person feel fear when watching horror movies? His answer was something like, that if you do not believe in the story, the conceptual fear can subside.

longchen SG

I had a lucid nightmare yesterday.

I have a feeling that this might be what happens when death comes, except more intense. The dream is almost like a form of bardo state.

Very good dream.

The lucidity allows one to see the illusion. The dream monster disapears means that the spell is broken at that time. This will translate into the waking hours. We will see how conceptual thinking (narrative of the mind) can bind us into a spell-like state.

Also, the dream monster symbolise a certain aspect of our karmic habit that is still not fully known yet. But you will discover it in due time when the karmic habit appear during the waking hours.

regards

An Eternal Now SG

Very good dream.

Also, the dream monster symbolise a certain aspect of our karmic habit that is still not fully known yet. But you will discover it in due time when the karmic habit appear during the waking hours.

regards

I see... thanks for the sharing. "Spell-like state" is the word. When I first had this lucidity and recognised that all that was the projection of my mind, the tendency to project was still there. I understood that I could either remain in present awareness and then all will subside or if I lose mindfulness I would fall back into the dream. I just stayed in present, naked non-reactive awareness and refuse to 'give in' to the illusions.

The same case goes for waking hours... I have to practice being in thoughtfree awakeness to be liberated from all spell-like states

p.s. what kind of karmic habit? lol

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