Slavery in old tibet and....mmm

Ser~pent SG

WW 2....BTW I'm buddhist couldn't understand the "old tibet" Shocked

Can anybody tell me the truth about slavery in old tibet?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20071231162901AA6PQOq&grp_name=kalachakranet&grp_spid=1602624710&grp_cat=/Religion___Beliefs/Buddhism/Tibetan&grp_user=0

I follow Tibetan Buddhism and have seen a website that says that the dalai lama had slaves in Tibet and their Skin was Peeled off, Organs ripped out, etc...
I want to know if this is true, also i was told that the Temple Drums Were made from Slave Skin.
It was a Chinese website and i suspect that it is full of chinese communist lies, what does everybody think?
1 week ago

Additional Details

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I2bvs3uZ4c

http://club.6park.com/bolun/messages/41978.html

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth

I. For Lords and Lamas

Along with the blood drenched landscape of religious conflict there is the experience of inner peace and solace that every religion promises, none more so than Buddhism. Standing in marked contrast to the intolerant savagery of other religions, Buddhism is neither fanatical nor dogmatic--so say its adherents. For many of them Buddhism is less a theology and more a meditative and investigative discipline intended to promote an inner harmony and enlightenment while directing us to a path of right living. Generally, the spiritual focus is not only on oneself but on the welfare of others. One tries to put aside egoistic pursuits and gain a deeper understanding of one¡¯s connection to all people and things. ¡°Socially engaged Buddhism¡± tries to blend individual liberation with responsible social action in order to build an enlightened society.

A glance at history, however, reveals that not all the many and widely varying forms of Buddhism have been free of doctrinal fanaticism, nor free of the violent and exploitative pursuits so characteristic of other religions. In Sri Lanka there is a legendary and almost sacred recorded history about the triumphant battles waged by Buddhist kings of yore. During the twentieth century, Buddhists clashed violently with each other and with non-Buddhists in Thailand, Burma, Korea, Japan, India, and elsewhere. In Sri Lanka, armed battles between Buddhist Sinhalese and Hindu Tamils have taken many lives on both sides. In 1998 the U.S. State Department listed thirty of the world¡¯s most violent and dangerous extremist groups. Over half of them were religious, specifically Muslim, Jewish, and Buddhist. 1

In South Korea, in 1998, thousands of monks of the Chogye Buddhist order fought each other with fists, rocks, fire-bombs, and clubs, in pitched battles that went on for weeks. They were vying for control of the order, the largest in South Korea, with its annual budget of $9.2 million, its millions of dollars worth of property, and the privilege of appointing 1,700 monks to various offices. The brawls damaged the main Buddhist sanctuaries and left dozens of monks injured, some seriously. The Korean public appeared to disdain both factions, feeling that no matter what side took control, ¡°it would use worshippers¡¯ donations for luxurious houses and expensive cars.¡± 2

As with any religion, squabbles between or within Buddhist sects are often fueled by the material corruption and personal deficiencies of the leadership. For example, in Nagano, Japan, at Zenkoji, the prestigious complex of temples that has hosted Buddhist sects for more than 1,400 years, ¡°a nasty battle¡± arose between Komatsu the chief priest and the Tacchu, a group of temples nominally under the chief priest's sway. The Tacchu monks accused Komatsu of selling writings and drawings under the temple's name for his own gain. They also were appalled by the frequency with which he was seen in the company of women. Komatsu in turn sought to isolate and punish monks who were critical of his leadership. The conflict lasted some five years and made it into the courts. 3

Herzog_Zwei SG

Originally posted by Ser~pent:
WW 2....BTW I'm buddhist couldn't understand the "old tibet"

[b]Can anybody tell me the truth about slavery in old tibet?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/?qid=20071231162901AA6PQOq&grp_name=kalachakranet&grp_spid=1602624710&grp_cat=/Religion___Beliefs/Buddhism/Tibetan&grp_user=0

I follow Tibetan Buddhism and have seen a website that says that the dalai lama had slaves in Tibet and their Skin was Peeled off, Organs ripped out, etc...
I want to know if this is true, also i was told that the Temple Drums Were made from Slave Skin.
It was a Chinese website and i suspect that it is full of chinese communist lies, what does everybody think?
1 week ago

Additional Details

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I2bvs3uZ4c

http://club.6park.com/bolun/messages/41978.html

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth

I. For Lords and Lamas

Along with the blood drenched landscape of religious conflict there is the experience of inner peace and solace that every religion promises, none more so than Buddhism. Standing in marked contrast to the intolerant savagery of other religions, Buddhism is neither fanatical nor dogmatic--so say its adherents. For many of them Buddhism is less a theology and more a meditative and investigative discipline intended to promote an inner harmony and enlightenment while directing us to a path of right living. Generally, the spiritual focus is not only on oneself but on the welfare of others. One tries to put aside egoistic pursuits and gain a deeper understanding of one¡¯s connection to all people and things. ¡°Socially engaged Buddhism¡± tries to blend individual liberation with responsible social action in order to build an enlightened society.

A glance at history, however, reveals that not all the many and widely varying forms of Buddhism have been free of doctrinal fanaticism, nor free of the violent and exploitative pursuits so characteristic of other religions. In Sri Lanka there is a legendary and almost sacred recorded history about the triumphant battles waged by Buddhist kings of yore. During the twentieth century, Buddhists clashed violently with each other and with non-Buddhists in Thailand, Burma, Korea, Japan, India, and elsewhere. In Sri Lanka, armed battles between Buddhist Sinhalese and Hindu Tamils have taken many lives on both sides. In 1998 the U.S. State Department listed thirty of the world¡¯s most violent and dangerous extremist groups. Over half of them were religious, specifically Muslim, Jewish, and Buddhist. 1

In South Korea, in 1998, thousands of monks of the Chogye Buddhist order fought each other with fists, rocks, fire-bombs, and clubs, in pitched battles that went on for weeks. They were vying for control of the order, the largest in South Korea, with its annual budget of $9.2 million, its millions of dollars worth of property, and the privilege of appointing 1,700 monks to various offices. The brawls damaged the main Buddhist sanctuaries and left dozens of monks injured, some seriously. The Korean public appeared to disdain both factions, feeling that no matter what side took control, ¡°it would use worshippers¡¯ donations for luxurious houses and expensive cars.¡± 2

As with any religion, squabbles between or within Buddhist sects are often fueled by the material corruption and personal deficiencies of the leadership. For example, in Nagano, Japan, at Zenkoji, the prestigious complex of temples that has hosted Buddhist sects for more than 1,400 years, ¡°a nasty battle¡± arose between Komatsu the chief priest and the Tacchu, a group of temples nominally under the chief priest's sway. The Tacchu monks accused Komatsu of selling writings and drawings under the temple's name for his own gain. They also were appalled by the frequency with which he was seen in the company of women. Komatsu in turn sought to isolate and punish monks who were critical of his leadership. The conflict lasted some five years and made it into the courts. 3

[/b]

Some are actual true stories but most Buddhists claim that these people do not represent actual Buddhism and its philosophy.

Ser~pent SG

which parts are true stories?

caleb_chiang SG

only those who lived in the past would know... Rolling Eyes

Beyond Religion SG

One thing that has to be clarified. Deeds of individual Buddhists needs to be distinguished from Buddhism. Buddhism as a body of teaching encompasses compassion and wisdom. Unlike most other religions, Buddhism does not portray itself as a persecuted underdog. There isn't anywhere in the sutras that exhort its believers to 'fight', 'struggle', 'kill' and wage war etc. etc. blah blah kebalah etc.

The persons who kill, fight and engage in violence etc do so out of their own accord, against the teachings of Buddhism.

Michael Parenti has either inadvertantly (or intentionally) smeared the name of Buddhism based on the conduct of deviant "Buddhists" that has strayed from the core teachings of non-violence in Buddhism.

Ser~pent SG

. . . few Tibetans would welcome a return of the corrupt aristocratic clans that fled with him in 1959 and that comprise the bulk of his advisers. Many Tibetan farmers, for example, have no interest in surrendering the land they gained during Chinas land reform to the clans. Tibets former slaves say they, too, dont want their former masters to return to power. Ive already lived that life once before, said Wangchuk, a 67-year-old former slave who was wearing his best clothes for his yearly pilgrimage to Shigatse, one of the holiest sites of Tibetan Buddhism. He said he worshipped the Dalai Lama, but added, I may not be free under Chinese communism, but I am better off than when I was a slave.57

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

I really dont understand the "old tibet" Rolling Eyes

Ser~pent SG

.....This point is seldom understood by todays Shangri-La believers in the West. ..............

In reality, old Tibet was not a Paradise Lost. It was a retrograde repressive theocracy of extreme privilege and poverty, a long way from Shangri-La.
....................

http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html

WTF is "Shangri-La" ?

bohiruci SG

Dear all ,

Many years ago this western guy post in Wisdom BLiss on the Dalai lama collaboration with the FBI

I read Michael Peranti website ,he is earning a living through writing past CIA adventures

So whether true or not , I see the fiction side is quite bizarre

His Holiness Dalai Lama cannot press charges to him ,becos its a historical issue and Tibetan Government have no Legal dealings with the Internation Court of Justice against Slandering to the Federal Court of Justice of United States

AEN and I have feel such a website only mislead people to a Holy Leader reputation and nothing more than that

An Eternal Now SG

You have to see how the old Tibet social structure was like.

"I admit the posting is a little sensationalistic, but it's true that Tibet was a feudal society, with a status-quo of lamas that lived in luxury, often inheriting their position ala brahmins, captial punishment and torture were part of the penal system (people were still put in stocks in the middle of towns), etc.

exaggerating either way is just that ("Tibet was completely oppressive" or "Tibet was a heavenly utopia") but we can at least see a little of the truth that's being spoken here.

but anyway, Revolutionary, the number of Tibetans that welcome the current regime are the minority, and the ones against it are not just wealthy people, not by a long shot.

As far as the Dalai Lamas living in palaces while people live in squalor, i agree with you. but the thing is, once a status quo is so strongly established, it's difficult to change it, even if one wants to. there is a story about one of the earlier kings of Tibet, who tried to equalize the position of rich and poor. he was assasinated by his sister. traditions and political/social hierarchies tend to develop lives of their own after a while, and sometimes people can only work within the confines, even powerful, influential people, like Dalai Lamas.

His Holiness stated many times that he was poised to make major changes in Tibet despite these obstacles, and I fully believe him. He recognized that the state of Tibet was unacceptable and reforms had to be made, so I don't buy the whole "sitting on his throne while the people were enslaved" bit."

maggot SG

ritual cups made from human skull cap Laughing

An Eternal Now SG

BTW since this concerns politics and social structure rather than Buddhism and spirituality, I will be closing this thread.

(Refer to my previous reply in this thread for clarification)