The nature of the separate self, duality

last SG · 2007-10-26T21:42:01+00:00

See through all concepts of duality, of self and the world, of solidity and permanency and of seeing 'entities' (with inherent existence), and realising the...

An Eternal Now SG

True..

AndrewPKYap SG

Form is Emptiness is nonsense if you forget that Emptiness is form....

An Eternal Now SG

One who realises that form is emptiness also realises that emptiness is form. Because if it is an experiential insight, one also realises the intrinsic luminosity of appearances.

As I wrote, (because all is empty), Whatever arises is the whole universe manifesting as that moment. Know that the universe is giving its very best for this moment to arise. All conditions and causes are just right for the birth a moment of manifestation. When this is understood, the 'conditioned arising' is really unconditioned, all spontaneously arise.

The focus here is on the 'spontaneous arising'.

I further wrote:

And all conditioned arising is an expression of the unconditioned Buddha Nature. All that is arising is the Buddha. They are all your pristine awareness at that moment with its nature empty -- never the same and never remain (having no existence and reality apart from conditioned arising), nothing apart from the crystal clear manifestation of appearances. Completely and fully real and gone.

Thusness adds:

Originally posted by Thusness:

This is refining the non-dual experience with the emptiness nature of our awareness from a Buddhist perspective. It will reduce the gasping of self significantly if experienced intuitively. That said, we should also bear in mind that the purpose of expounding the emptiness nature of any arising is to realize that the transients are really our very Buddha nature. Ultimately emptiness is still a raft that must be discarded. Practice must enable us to experience the the most real of the appearances -- the full vivid aliveness yet empty at that moment. This is the luminous aspect of practice.

Just to illustrate a little on the example of 'flowerness':

There is no the flowerness seen by a dog, an insect or us. The flowerness is an illusion that does not stay even for a moment, merely an aggregate of causes and conditions. Analogous to the example of flowerness, there is no selfness serving as a background witnessing either -- pristine awareness is not the witnessing background. Rather, the entire whole of the moment of manifestation is our pristine awareness; lucidly clear, yet empty of inherent existence. This the way of seeing the one as many, the observer and the observed are one and the same. This is also the meaning of formlessness and attribute-less of our nature.

How does a dualistic mind see it?
A dualistic mind understands differently. A mind that is dualistic is quick to objectify formlessness and atribute-less into an empty-invisible-void entity observing transients manifestation. It dualifies form from formlessness and attempts to separate from itself. This is not I, I am the changeless and perfect stillness behind the transients appearances. Therefore impersonality appears cold and lifeless. But this is not the case for a non-dual practitioner in Buddhism. For him/her, the formlessness and attribute-less is vividly alive, full of colors and sounds. Formlessness is not understood apart from Forms the form of formlessness, the texture and fabric of awareness. They are one and the same.

An Eternal Now SG

Posted this months ago... about the nature of Dharmakaya --

(Source: Ven Shen Kai, Fa Yu Bing Fen)

Trans.:

"Dharmakaya" means the Thus Come One (Buddha)'s true body; the reality of all dharma/phenomena/manifestations, pervading all spaces, and no where can it not be found. The great sages of the past said, "Green bamboos are completely Dharmakaya; each grass and each tree are all Prajna. Each grass and wood are amidst the ocean of the nature of Thus Come One (i.e Buddha Nature). The illusory great bamboos displays Dharmakaya's substance, it is not that green bamboos means dharmakaya. The illusory luxuriant chrysanthemum expresses the function of Prajna, it is not that chrysanthemums mean Prajna."

AndrewPKYap SG

How can luminosity be form? What is form?

An Eternal Now SG

Form here means appearances. There is ultimately no fixed form and shapes with inherent existence, this is an illusion. (using the analogy of the flower -- you see red, dog see black & white, therefore flower has no fixed attributes, form, shapes, etc... but is merely a manifestation of karmic causes and conditions)

What there is however, is conditioned manifestation which is empty, therefore unconditioned. It is illusory, magical appearances -- because there is no 'solidity' or 'existence' within appearances, but merely a mere manifestation with no reality apart from the causes and conditions.

It is this appearances that are self-luminous, self-shimmering. As Ken Wilber describes (see http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/05/some-writings-on-non-duality-by-ken.html), "The entire universe is a transparent shimmering of the Divine, of primordial Purity. But the Divine is not someplace else, it is just all of this shimmering. It is self-seen. It has One Taste. It is nowhere else."

As my Master wrote, "Dharmakaya" means the Thus Come One (Buddha)'s true body; the reality of all dharma/phenomena/manifestations, pervading all spaces, and no where can it not be found. The great sages of the past said, "Green bamboos are completely Dharmakaya; each grass and each tree are all Prajna. Each grass and wood are amidst the ocean of the nature of Thus Come One (i.e Buddha Nature). The illusory great bamboos displays Dharmakaya's substance, it is not that green bamboos means dharmakaya. The illusory luxuriant chrysanthemum expresses the function of Prajna, it is not that chrysanthemums mean Prajna."

It is not that Dharmakaya has fixed forms, shapes and attributes, it is formless -- but the formless is in fact, the appearances -- the mere appearances of sights, the sounds, the flowers, the trees. It is formless because it is empty of any fixed, inherent existence.

This is also what Buddha meant when he said, in seeing, only the seen, no seer. In hearing, only the heard, no hearer... etc (the same goes to smelling, tasting, touching, thinking) There is literally no observer apart from the observed (and no thinker apart from thought, no doer apart from done, etc etc..)

As a Zen Master put it, "When I heard the sound of the bell ringing, there was no I, and no bell, just the ringing."

There is only conditioned manifestation -- mere appearances -- the scenary, the birds chirping, etc (words can never ultimately describe it, it is the pure experience that must be intuitively known) and this appearance is self-knowing, self shimmering. The divine is not anywhere else apart from manifestation. Manifestation is the Source.

No watcher needed, the process itself knows and rolls as Venerable Buddhaghosa writes in the Visuddhi Magga.

Self-luminous manifestation arises, never the same and never remain, nothing apart from the crystal clear manifestation of appearances. Completely and fully real and gone, with no reality/separate existence apart from conditions.

more info: http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html

An Eternal Now SG

So.. there you got your explanation in my reply to AndrewPKYap above Smile

An Eternal Now SG

The development of this vision is said to spread like a forest fire, until the sense of a subject subsides of its own accord. One experiences the primordial wisdom in which as soon as an object appears, one recognizes its emptiness as being the same as the voidness of one's own state. The inseparability of emptiness and vision, and the presence of the state and emptiness are all experienced together. Then everything can be said 'of one single taste', which is the emptiness of both subject and object. Dualism is completely overcome. Although there is, on the one hand, still the manifestation of the play of energy which, in the dualistic state, we take for objects, and, on the other hand, the cognitive capacity that in the dualistic state we take for a separate subjective self, because of the uninterrupted presence of contemplation we no longer experience the illusion of a dualism between one and the other. This is the state pointed to in the last of the Six Vajra Verses:

Seeing that everything is self-perfected from the very beginning,
the disease of striving for any achievement
comes to an end of its own accord,
and just remaining in the natural state as it is,
the presence of non-dual contemplation
continuously, spontaneously arises.

~ Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
---------------------

When 'one taste' is realised, there is no external 'form', 'objects', nor a cognitive subject/self, but just One whole non-differentiated experience of vibration... Which means, there is no body, nor pillow nor sound nor the door... just that pure experience of vibration.

Everything becomes 'deconstructed' and disintegrates into the basic pure experience of 'One Taste'. As ChNNR said, 'Although there is, on the one hand, still the manifestation of the play of energy which, in the dualistic state, we take for objects, and, on the other hand, the cognitive capacity that in the dualistic state we take for a separate subjective self, because of the uninterrupted presence of contemplation we no longer experience the illusion of a dualism between one and the other.'

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/05/different-degrees-of-non-duality.html

Thsuness says: "4. Only one tremendous spontaneous clarity flows, there is no differentiation between what that spins the earth or what that pumps your heart beats or what that makes the plants grow. When you eat an apple, it is the entire universe that eats the apple. Just one whole clarity spontaneity flow. Continual experience of transcendence joy and bliss."

(11:20 PM) Thusness: the entire physical processes are just conditions
(11:20 PM) AEN: oic ya
(11:20 PM) Thusness: and Awareness is not a behind reality
(11:21 PM) Thusness: the nature of Awareness is empty
(11:21 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:21 PM) Thusness: they are one
(11:21 PM) Thusness: just like u cannot define the boundaries when granted microscopic eyesights
(11:21 PM) Thusness: u cannot separate awareness from conditions
(11:22 PM) Thusness: and an arising of phenomena is a oneness experienced distorted
(11:22 PM) Thusness: non-dual experience eliminate the object-subject split
(11:23 PM) Thusness: but one is still unable to leap completely into oneness as we are unable to 'fuse' this formlessness and form into one whole oneness
(11:24 PM) Thusness: this is the understanding at the intellectual level
(11:24 PM) AEN: oneness as in non separation of phenomena into this and that?
(11:24 PM) Thusness: yes
(11:24 PM) AEN: icic..
(11:25 PM) Thusness: in actual experience, it is always non-dual subject-object is always one.
(11:25 PM) Thusness: if 'impersonality' is correctly experienced after non-dual, all experiences become one
(11:25 PM) Thusness: someone open the door
(11:25 PM) Thusness: there is sound, vibration
(11:25 PM) Thusness: the bed
(11:26 PM) Thusness: the body
(11:26 PM) Thusness: the pillow
(11:26 PM) Thusness: all is One whole experience of vibration
(11:26 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:26 PM) Thusness: there is no body, nor pillow nor sound nor the door...just that pure experience of vibration
(11:27 PM) Thusness: crystal clear
(11:27 PM) AEN: is it like the deconstruction longchen said?
(11:27 PM) Thusness: yes
(11:27 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:27 PM) Thusness: get it?
(11:27 PM) AEN: tink so
(11:27 PM) Thusness: like the universe eats an apple.
(11:27 PM) Thusness: it is the depth and degree of this experience
(11:28 PM) Thusness: whenever the sense of self arises, there is no totality of experience
(11:28 PM) AEN: oic..
(11:28 PM) Thusness: so u know how to incorporate ur understanding of non-dual, emptiness
(11:29 PM) Thusness: and see what is 'middle'
(11:29 PM) Thusness: with the introduction of emptiness nature
(11:29 PM) Thusness: as in the case of Advaita and Science
(11:30 PM) AEN: icic..

(11:34 PM) Thusness: what is the form?
(11:34 PM) Thusness: which and what form we are toking about?
(11:35 PM) Thusness: at human level with the limitation of senses and body, the entire universe is conditioned according our limitation of senses.
(11:35 PM) Thusness: like the eyesights i gave u
(11:36 PM) AEN: oic yea
(11:36 PM) Thusness: what i want is to refine ur understanding on the idea of 'illusion'
(11:36 PM) Thusness: but the appearance in terms of Presence is as real as it can be.
(11:36 PM) AEN: oic..
---------------------
More on appearances as luminous emptiness inseparable:

http://www.ktgrinpoche.org/guru_rinpoche.html

...What appears to the eyes are forms, which are made up of shapes and colors. Everything that is a shape and color is included in the source of consciousness (Sanskrit: ayatana) that is called form. The shapes and colors that appear to the eyes are found in all of the aspects of the environment in which we live, as well as in all of the sentient beings who inhabit this environment. What is the true nature of the appearances of shapes and colors of the environment and sentient beings? It is that they are dependently arisen mere appearances, which do not exist in essence. The forms that appear do not truly exist. In the abiding nature of reality, their nature is emptiness. They appear while being empty; while empty, they appear. They are appearance-emptiness like rainbows, water-moons, and reflections. All of the objects that appear to the eyes are appearance-emptiness undifferentiable...

...In our waking life, even though the environment and sentient beings appear to us, the supplication says "let them rest where no self's found." The environment and sentient beings appear, but let them rest without clinging to them as truly existent. Let them rest in their natural state of appearance-emptiness without fixating on them as being real. When we let the appearances rest without fixating on them as being real, all of the thoughts of there being an actual object out there to perceive and an actual distinct subject perceiving it just dissolve. The thoughts that take the duality of perceived object and perceiving subject to be real dissolve. They are purified.

When that happens, everything shines as luminous emptiness, clarity-emptiness. At this point, you are ready to meditate on the deity, because the deity's enlightened body is also appearance-emptiness. It appears while it is empty; it is empty while it appearsit is like a rainbow. When you meditate on the deity, everything appears as the body of the deityappearance-emptiness....

Devil1976 SG

I think I got my answer already... Thanks... Mr. Green

An Eternal Now SG

This overwhelming Beauty-Love-Compassion-Bliss is the very nature, the essence, of the Brilliance that is Sat Chit Ananda; and its constant Outpouring is This; all of this, what is known as the manifestation, the created universe, phenomena. This ultimate Truth at the end of human vision is not something far away, not something 'beyond' in the sense of being something other:

"On no account make a distinction between the Absolute and the sentient world. Whatever Consciousness Is, so also are phenomena."
(Huang Po)

Consciousness, Presence, All That Is, is not static; it is the infinite field of pure potentiality, the possibility of everything, spilling over, pouring itself out in pure Being, the beingness of everything; in pure Love, the Love which everything is.

~ David Carse

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