Relics in Buddhism

sanath SG

But the Sangha is not made up of "one" monk, but is the community of monks, nuns and laypeople.

And, just being a monk does not make one faultless. If one was faultless, then he/she is already a Buddha.

yamizi SG

From the Dhammapada but can't remember exact quote, respect a monk not because of the robe he don but the virtues he has.

After much controversy shouldn't we really pause to think that who is worth respecting?

Respecting Sangha is not wrong, but as Sanath had explained, Sangha includes the lay buddhists. While Lord Buddha during His time broke the social norm on the discrimination and biased among the 4 groups in the ancient India caste system, I hope you won't put Lord Buddha's intention in vain by starting to place ordain people on a high pesdetral.

There are good and bad lay buddhists; this goes to the same to the ordained.

cycle SG

Exactly. That's why monks have many more precepts and they hv to practise much harder than us laypeople ( Don't understd what u mean by sangha is made up of laypeople, laypeople in this sense is people wif little or without practise and precepts). They make faults, they pay the cause n effects. The karmic results of the monks who knowingly break precepts is huge. This the Buddha has mentioned in a sutta but I'm very stupid so pardon me, can't quote exactly.

So once again, who r we to say which monk is fautless or not? Many of us laypeople "think" we are Buddha already. Smile

Oh, btw, did I say anything abt one monk? Or anything abt Monk are fautless? I just said Monks , or the sangha, is Triple Gem. Pls don't urgue over this as well. I'm not oldkid, cannot handle. Smile

cycle SG

Oh, sorry… this thread is abt relics, so should stick to main topics.

oldkid SG

I agree. It is true that one must be wary during this Dharma-Ending Age. However, this is more applicable for laypeople who wished to seek a Guru and to be trained/taught by this Guru. Wisdom must be used here (not intelligence but wisdom). A layperson must be able to identify the 10 good characteristics of a Guru before asking the Guru to be his/her spiritual guide.

IMHO, a simple form of respect to a monk (even if you know that the monk is a fake or is non-virtuous in his deeds) should exist for any Buddhists. This respect is very basic and simple, just put your palms together and smile or just a simple smile will do. This is because you are respecting the Sangha community as the saffron robes don by the monk represent the Sangha. Mr. Green

yamizi SG

But it's already said by Buddha the saffron robes doesn't represent the Sangha community! This is like the modern terms, rank is what you wear, respect is what you earn!

Aiya, how many lay buddhists will know the 10 good characteristics of Guru? If they would have know, I sincerely believe the BTRT would not have gathered so much money already.

=)

oldkid SG

True. As what you had said, many lay Buddhist will have no way to identify a good Guru. If it is even hard to tell if a monk is real or fake, it will be better to refrain from saying anything about them until one had thoroughly investigated, contemplated and confirmed with other high practisioners.

This is to prevent one from saying the wrong thing (slander) in case that the monk is real or a good motivation that is not discovered by us. Mr. Green

yamizi SG

Haha, as I had explained many times, slander will be a deliberate on saying something that is untrue on someone else knowingly.

So you agree to take something that is fake to tell you is the true in Buddha's name (Da4 Wang4 Yu3) to let people come to Buddhism?

TheGoodEarth SG

Outlook is everything but don't be deceived. In formal wear, we put on uniforms, suits, robes, tunics, etc. to distinguish one's profession, vocation and calling from another, and even to display hierarchy, rank and position.
While we respect the vocation and position, there is no need to be overtly awed. We know never the true character of the person behind in those attires!

oldkid SG

Originally posted by yamizi:

Haha, as I had explained many times, slander will be a [b]deliberate on saying something that is untrue on someone else knowingly.

So you agree to take something that is fake to tell you is the true in Buddha's name (Da4 Wang4 Yu3) to let people come to Buddhism?[/b]

Oh, the slander part I must contemplate more and you may be correct as there is an important factor of motivation. Thanks for pointing out. Embarassed

Take something fake and attract pple to Buddhism? Haha, Buddhism is not MLM leh. Using Sutras and good teachings will be good enough to attract pple. The good will attract the good, the bad will attract the bad. It depends on the level of synchroinisation between the "attractor" and the "attractee". Mr. Green

oldkid SG

Very interesting!!! Our perceptions on things are quite opposite but we still managed to reach the same conclusion everytime! IMHO:

Outlook is not everything so don't be deceived. In mundane world, the formal wear we put on such uniforms, suits, robes, tunics and etc. allow us to efficiently distinguish one's profession, vocation and even to display hierarchy, rank and position.
While we respect the vocation and position, there is no need to be overtly awed for those we are not familar with for we have yet to discover the true characters of the person behind those attires! A simple respect will do.
Mr. Green

yamizi SG

You hit the nail right on the wall man.

oldkid SG

Same as the previous answers I had given. Unless it is truely certified and verified. Until then, a simple respect will be sufficient. There are so many other good things around, no need to be attached to one. Razz

yamizi SG

A simple respect is an attachment too =)

I don't disregard good things. But we should know and understand both good and bad things. How can only psycho oneself in seeing good things only right?

=)

oldkid SG

Ah, I disagree with this view. It will be as good as viewing everything to be empty and there is no need to do anything. Even when a noble being views everything to be empty, the noble being will still be humble in attitude.

Of course, thanks to mundane views and the SAF, we learnt that respect has to be earned. But I personally favour this view:
In order for others to respect you, you must first respect others and it is through one's virtuous deeds that one will be worthy of respect.
Mr. Green

Also, I had learnt that when we see a person bad qualities, we shouldn't just focus on his/her bad qualities. There is goodness in everyone. Although it may be hard to find/extract that goodness initially, we should be patient, find that goodness and make it shine through. It maybe difficult to do but it will be worth it. Smile

yamizi SG

I never deny goodness ah? But as I mentioned many times, we ought to see the both of them. Not JUST goodness.

I think most people would have misunderstood about emptiness. Emptiness is an inherent nature but what exist for the moment do exist.

Kind words spoken at the moment do inspired people; same goes to unkind or lies spoken which will confuse people too.

Seek the Truth.

I don't have that kind of thinking to have others respect for me. I would prefer people to respect the Truth =)

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