For my thoughts are not your thoughts

Omniknight SG

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)

dont you think this verse will make you disidentify from your own thoughts??

An Eternal Now SG

Christianity path and other monotheistic path like Islam (literally means 'submission') is submission to God and God's will.

This is not the path of Buddhism so no comments from me. But there are contemplative and mystical traditions that practices that way.

Omniknight SG

you are not supposed to imagine God in christianity!

An Eternal Now SG

In monotheistic teachings, you are not supposed to imagine God, you're supposed to surrender/submit yourself to God.

"Not my will but thy will be done." -- Jesus, while being nailed to the cross and dying

Up till the point where there is the dissolving of the egoic identification into the realisation of the Divine Self (pure I AMness/I AM THAT I AM), "the indwelling Presence in us" (see Ironside's post in EH), as Paul said from his experience: I no longer live, but Christ lives in me! (Gal. 2.20)

I think the post by Ironside explains this very well in Eternal Hope forum: Living the Christ Life: A brief exposition of Galatians 2:20

This, is the path of monotheistic religions and contemplative paths. In Buddhism, our path is through Insight/Wisdom and Awareness.

Sunyata by A.H.Almaas, a Islamic Sufi Contemplative and also a Buddhist practitioner:

If love leads the devotee to the point of the extinction of personality in the fire of truth, awareness can lead him to the point of seeing that ego does not really exist, and hence achieve the same goal of selflessness. Love melts the lover into the ocean of truth, there remain no traces of an I. Awareness, on the other hand, cuts through the illusion of a separate identity. It exposes the lie of ego: that it exists as a reality. Love melts ego away, while awareness is like turning on the light and seeing that there is nobody there. The outcome is the same in both cases, but the flavor of the path is different. One is more emotional, the other more insightful. The vocabularies of the two paths differ as a result. The path of love seeks union with the Beloved, while the path of awareness seeks the seeing of naked Reality. Just as prayer is the central practice in the path of love, meditation is the central practice in the path of awareness... (continued in the URL)

BTW, his experiences on Awareness and Insight practise in the URL is a good read.

An Eternal Now SG

Note: this is Ironside's own writings in the Christian forum (Eternal Hope), I pasted here for sharing purposes regarding Christianity's practise for readers' better understanding

It is my prayer that this will be a blessing to Christians here in this forum. Those people who have Christ indwelling them through His Holy Spirit by trusting in Christ alone for salvation.

Living the Christ Life

Introduction

About five hundred years ago, the doctrine of justification by faith alone was recovered. Thanks to a man named Martin Luther. We are much indebted to the Reformers recovery of this essential truth of the Bible.

However, no one man or one group of people for that matter in the Church of God has cornered all the truth. Many preachers and teachers after the Reformation rightly taught that justification is by faith alone and not through the Law. What is sad and lamentable however, is that these same preachers taught that sanctification is through the Law. They would have us go to Mt. Calvary for justification and Mt. Sinai for sanctification.

They say: Justification is by faith alone in Christ alone but sanctification is through the Law. This teaching never gets beyond Romans chapter 4 to the identification truths of Romans chapter six and the Liberty of the Spirit in Romans chapter 8, thereby causing many a Christian to flounder and live under a frustrating Romans 7 life.

However, the Bible clearly delineates that a Christian is not under Law but under grace, that a Christian died to the Law and is married now to a higher Law: Christ Himself. So, actually, Christ is not only the Christians justification, He is also the Christians sanctification.

Today, we are going to learn from the Apostle Paul as to how to live the Christian life:

Our text is Galatians 2:20:

Ga 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

In this text of Scripture, we see three things; we see here that Paul always reckons his a) position with Christ, he was always conscious of the b) presence of the indwelling Christ in him and lastly we see Pauls c) heart posture he always relied on Christ.

I. The Christians position with Christ: I have been crucified with Christ; It is no longer I who live

In the Bible, there are positional truths and there are also truths that pertain to our condition. Truths that refer to our Standing and truths that refer to our State. Positional truths refer to our standing in the eyes of God. Truths that refer to the Christians condition on the other hand refers to our State, our condition as we see ourselves here on earth. Positional truths are unchangeable, they are permanent, they are static. However, our condition or state fluctuates, at least in this side of glory. God would have us match our condition with what we are in position.

Before any single Israelite reached the Promise Land, God had already declared victory and ownership of that Land in advance to the Israelites. The Promise Land was theirs by position before any of them arrived there. Their unbelief did not change that fact. Positionally, the Promise Land was theirs already. In actual condition, they were still in the desert. What they must do is make that position real in their actual experience by going into the Land and possess it. God commanded them to drive the inhabitants of that land. God commanded them to make their condition match their position.

Paul, here in verse 20a was stating a positional truth: I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live. The old unsaved Paul with its old corrupt habits and ways was crucified with Christ. The cross ended the reign of Pauls old self positionally. It was the end of what he was in Adam. And as far as Paul was concerned, Paul reckons that old self as dead positionally.

God did not transform our old unsaved selves. No, He crucified it. He nailed it to the cross with Christ. God does not expect anything from our old unsaved selves. We dont expect anything from a dead man.

An Eternal Now SG

Note: this is Ironside's own writings in the Christian forum (Eternal Hope), I pasted here for sharing purposes regarding Christianity's practise for readers' better understanding

II. After Paul, stated his position with Christ, Paul then proceeds to state the secret of living the Christian life; Christ Himself---His indwelling presence in us:

Ga 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;.....

The me here is the new man in the risen Christ. When Christ was crucified, everything we are connected with the old creation, everything we are connected with Adam was crucified with Him and all these things have passed away positionally. When Christ resurrected we also resurrected with Him positionally to a new creation. The me here and the I in verse 20d refers to who we are in the risen Christ. However, the dynamic of the new man is the indwelling Christ.

It is a noticeable fact that in the area of salvation God has been setting us aside from the start. Instead of us dying for our sins, Christ died in our stead. In the same way, in the area of living the Christian life, instead of us living the Christ life, Christ lives His life through us. And that is just right because only Christ can live His life. None of us can live the Christ life in the same way I cannot live your life and you cannot live mine. The only one who can live your life is you. The only one who can live my life is me. The only one who can live Christ's life is CHRIST. Now that is a problem for we are not Christ and we have to live the Christ life, but that problem is solved when we realize that Christ lives IN us. What we must do then is to let Christ live His life in and through us. Yield!!!!

Yes, Christ is our life. He is not only our Lord, He is also our Life. Colossians 3:4 clearly states it:

Col 3:4 When Christ who is our Life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory

Philippians 1:21: For to me to live is Christ..

In the original, there is no linking verb is here. So Paul was actually saying: For to me to live, Christ, and to die, gain.

What we are to do is let Christ live His life through us. Just like what Paul did. Second Corinthians 4:11 :For we who live are always being delivered to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus might also be manifested in our body. 

God took care of my sins by Christ dying for me on the cross. He also took care of what I am in Adam by crucifying me with Christ. And now God will deliver me from the power of sin by Christ living in me. Romans chapter 5 verse 10 says:

Ro 5:10 For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

You have trouble loving someone? Let Christ love him through you. You have trouble with your temper? You are going to fail every time if you let your old self control it for you. Our old self just cant do it. It is incorrigibly bad and wicked. God does not expect anything good from it. He nailed it to the cross. And we are to reckon it as such. It was not changed. The secret is an exchanged life. I am crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live but Christ.

III. Now, lest we think that we are not going to do anything and just sit back in sinful passivity, Paul proceeds to tell us the only logical thing to do after stating that his old self was crucified with Christ on the cross positionally and that Christ now lives in him: The only logical thing to do is to Rely on the indwelling Christ.

Ga 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Our old sinful self has been positionally taken out of the way by God crucifying us with Christ and now Christ lives in us. Nevertheless, we are not going to be passive about it, rather we are to depend on Christ continually. Faith is always active never passive. In my Bible I have it written in the front page as to how to depend on the indwelling Christ. This is a quote from Major Ian Thomas:

Relate everything, moment by moment, as it arises to the adequacy of what He is in you, and assume that His adequacy will be operative.

To recap: to live the Christian life We are to reckon our position that we have been crucified with Christ and raised up with Him, recognize that the indwelling Christ is our life and that relying on Him is our portion. These are the platform truths on which the injunctions and directives of the New Testament stand.

Xprobe SG

well said, this means that i can never be YOU and thus should stop trying and liberate myself from perfecting to YOUR ways. now i can really BE MYSELF.

An Eternal Now SG

Interesting interpretations Laughing

Though you must also know that salvation in Christianity is not by good works, but by grace and faith Wink It is about submission to God.. No amount of good works can make the individual 'self' perfect for the ego is sinful by nature. I am saying all these cos I think even Buddhists should sometimes understand other people's faith better Mr. Green

It is by being crucified (the egoic 'self', which is 'sinful' by nature) and Born Again, with Spirit and Christ as Life.

Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. He came to Jesus by night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God." Jesus answered him, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born again." Nicodemus said to him, "How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother's womb and be born?" Jesus answered, "Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."

John 3:1-5, RSV

Water symbolizes spiritual purification of the sinful self, and Spirit means the Christ Self. (That is why you see water baptism ceremonies as initiation into Christianity) I have been crucified with Christ; It is no longer I who live.

As Ironside said:

Paul, here in verse 20a was stating a positional truth: I have been crucified with Christ, it is no longer I who live. The old unsaved Paul with its old corrupt habits and ways was crucified with Christ. The cross ended the reign of Pauls old self positionally. It was the end of what he was in Adam. And as far as Paul was concerned, Paul reckons that old self as dead positionally.

An Eternal Now SG

BTW, further discussions on Christianity should be made in Eternal Hope, people are questioning why I discussing Christianity here Laughing Just for sharing purposes lah, but I think there are more appropriate platforms.