Original innocence and absolute truth

Eric Cartman SG

the Isness part

An Eternal Now SG

Personally, I have learnt that all IS.

Every moment is as it IS. There can never be a moment that is not as it is.

Isness has a crystal aliveness... clear, joyful and spontaneously manifesting.

Look! See! Isness is always there... but it has been hijacked by 'sense of self'.... or the stream of preferences we call self or soul. Even self and soul IS. ~ Longchen

Please read the entire thread here: Nondual Thinking and the Mahayana Deconstruction of Time

If everyone is able to 'see through' the illusion that the self and the world is inherently existent, and no longer give rise to dualistic thinking, there would be no more fundamental aversion or attraction to phenomena, or what Buddhism say - no more Greed, Hatred and Ignorance. Just Isness.

WiNtEr'SkiLL SG

noted

JonLS SG

My own experience is that I've found that the Isness of the present moment is It.

There is nothing needed beyond this.

Rest in just "this".

I open myself up to the vastness that is this present moment.

JonLS SG

Before I was involved in a story of becoming, of needing to know, of needing something other than what is arising in this present moment.

But now I realize that, in my essence, I am this present moment including the emptiness out of which it arises and all appearances also.

It all emanates somewhere from within my gut area.

An Eternal Now SG

... and this, and this... (quoting Byron Katie) Mr. Green

...These were the first moments after I was born as it, or it as me. There was nothing left of Katie. There was literally not even a shred of memory of her no past, no future, not even a present. And in that openness, such joy. There's nothing sweeter than this, I felt; there is nothing but this. If you loved yourself more than anything you could imagine, you would give yourself this. A face. A hand. Breath. But that's not enough. A wall. A ceiling. A window. A bed. Light bulbs. Ooh! And this too! And this too! And this too!...

Herzog_Zwei SG

Absolute stupidity... from guess who? Mr. Green

An Eternal Now SG

Question

Thusness SG

'Now' is an impression. 'Here' is an impression. The 'place where it emanates' is also an impression. If we attempt to find a 'where', we are reacting to our dualistic momentum. This will create a 'split' and the sense of self will arise.

Isness is the vivid and crystal clarity of a moment of phenomenal manifestation. It is awareness as 'things' and awareness as 'forms'. All of what awareness is, is the phenomenal manifestation right there and then and it subsides instantaneously. If the 'sense of self' as a background, as body and as momentum hasn't dissolved thoroughly, there will be vagueness in the experience of Isness and the timelessness of an instant will not be appreciated.

Thusness SG

Originally posted by JonLS:

My own experience is that I've found that the Isness of the present moment is It.

There is nothing needed beyond this.

Rest in just "this".

I open myself up to the vastness that is this present moment.

Yes there is no beyond and everything is merely 'This'. When we tok about awareness it has to be only One, this is what Awareness is and it has to be so, non-dual by nature. Therefore opening up is to give up all and everything relating to 'self'. No-self and just 'the everything', clarity and Self is an inverse relationship. The mathematical formula for it:

Clarity = 1/Self

Mr. Green

Thusness SG

Many advaita masters have advised ppl to experience the 'Self' but the essence of liberation is not in experiencing the Self. One can experience the I AMness, the pure sense of existence a million times yet does not help in any aspect of enlightenment regardless of how mystical and transcendental the experience can be.

More harms are done if such experience enhanced our dualistic thought. In fact the wrong conclusion that awareness is a changeless, permanent entity is the result of distorting a non-dual experience due to the inability of our mind to go beyond its habitual dualistic thinking mechanism. When the dualistic mind attempts to understand this experience, it projects this Self as the background to fit the non-dual experience into its dualistic framework. Such experience cannot lead to liberation because it is dualistic in nature. Any form of separation is non-liberating.

Therefore emphasis must be placed correctly on the 'no-self' aspect of awareness. Awareness is by nature non-dual. Being non-dual it is impermanent, ceaselessly and spontaneously manifesting as All. This is the clarity that must come from direct experience. There is no compromise regarding these aspects of our pristine nature. It must be thoroughly clear to experience the self-liberating nature of awareness.

An Eternal Now SG

Reminds me of Longchen's article:

http://www.dreamdatum.com/nondual-experience.html

How is Non-duality like?

Non duality is really the same experience as no-self state. It is also the same as no subject-object split. 'No subject-object split' means the illusion of an observer and the being observed is being understood and removed.

Below is a description of how non-duality feels like.

I have noticed that non-duality (or non dual experience) has various depths and degrees.

Certain times there are more mental thoughts, certain times less and this give rise to different degrees of vividness and sense of Oneness.

At times, sense of being at a location can be greatly diminished... instead what is being felt are all the sensations that made up 'here-ness'... For in truth, 'here-ness' is really made up of perceptions and sensations... For example, the sensations of pressure of the feet against the floor... they are just that..sensations. Likewise, the visual perceptions and hearing and so on so forth are just that.

For in truth, 'location-space', 'individuality-self', ' inner-outer', etc are impressions.

There is also a spacious or all-pervading quality to the experience of non-duality and this is what was meant as a sense of Oneness. At times, objects and surroundings can be 'de-cognated' ( that is ... freed from being perceived as such) and a free-ing joyful and vitalising feeling can be felt. This feels like the mind has finally comes to a must-needed rest from its incessant mental activities.

Also, in the deeper range of non duality, brightness becomes stronger. This brightness is the result of mind's deconstruction which allows for intense penetration into consciousness. The Brightness can be so intense that it is truly stunning.

Please understand that all along our existence has been non-dual. There is no attaining to non-duality... It is only the 'sense of self' that created the impression of duality. Even when the 'sense of self' is there, existence is still non-dual. We never live out of non-duality.

Also, there is another point to add...

Non-duality is NOT the same as a state of Witnessing Presence observing Phenomenality. An Eternal Witnessing Presence that is apart from Phenomena cannot be said to be non dual as there are two components here (witness and phenomena). This experience is characterised by a non-judging watcher observing the world and mind. I had this experience before. And now, I must say that true non-duality is distinctively different from this. The witness/watcher is really not separated from the rest of the world . It (this witness) is not unchanging, but is simply a knowingness that is not apart from the flow of phenomenality.

Non duality can only be stably experienced when the 'sense of self' and the 'Eternal Witness' are correctly understood for what they are.

For your necessary ponderance. Thank you for reading.

Thusness SG

Yes the non-dual article longchen wrote is of very good quality. Unfortunately not all can appreciate the essence of it. Smile

JonLS SG

Hi Thusness,

Thank you for your great replies.

I must admit I don't understand some of what you posted.

But as I was reading your answers I was too peaceful to care.

The point is, I suppose, I would rather just "be" than continue looking for something.

Thusness SG

The sensation of Isness 'as it is' is a feeling of clarity. It is an expression that the mind is not adding or subtracting anything from that clarity. But in most cases, Isness is to some extend very much mixed up with thoughts (dualistic). There are varying degree of clarity to this experience of Isness.

There will come a time where the mind/body just dropped completely. There is absolutely no sensation of a background and a body. Then the vividness and clarity is only just the 'things' as the layering that divides disappear.

If the mind/body drop-experience is stabilized, all experiences become shifted to the experience of awareness as 'Forms'. Seeing it as the 'Things', as everything. Experiencing Awareness is the same as experiencing the crystal clarity of 'things'. As long as there is 'things', existence, awareness IS. Awareness, IS and 'Things' are One. If this experience is stabilized, there is really no need to find 'where' it emanates from since everywhere merely IS. If the center is truly gone, emanation is right at the 'sound' heard, there and then. So we felt a center, a place, what we are feeling is an impression that is thought-bound. It is really the feeling of the idea in a more subtle form rather than awareness in its nakedness.

Next when the mind is free of definitions and symbols, it loses all its 'quantitative' characteristics. Eternality for example, is not an endless duration from past to future; instead it is right in/at this instant; how deep, beautiful, real and clear it is in this instantaneous moment. All attributes (Realness, Luminosity, Unborn, Uncreated...etc) of Awareness are manifested instantly. How much we know about our pristine Awareness is determined by the quality of this moment of experience. In Buddhism it is what can be experienced in a speck of dust and all these have to do with the thoroughness of dropping the 'Self', every aspect of the 'Self' (as a container, as body, as habitual momentum). Do not place any limit on the experience of 'Isness', there is no depth to it... Mr. Green

JonLS SG

Originally posted by Thusness:

The sensation of Isness 'as it is' is a feeling of clarity. It is an expression that the mind is not adding or subtracting anything from that clarity. But in most cases, Isness is to some extend very much mixed up with thoughts (dualistic). There are varying degree of clarity to this experience of Isness.

There will come a time where the mind/body just dropped completely. There is absolutely no sensation of a background and a body. Then the vividness and clarity is only just the 'things' as the layering that divides disappear.

If the mind/body drop-experience is stabilized, all experiences become shifted to the experience of awareness as 'Forms'. Seeing it as the 'Things', as everything. Experiencing Awareness is the same as experiencing the crystal clarity of 'things'. As long as there is 'things', existence, awareness IS. Awareness, IS and 'Things' are One. If this experience is stabilized, there is really no need to find 'where' it emanates from since everywhere merely IS. If the center is truly gone, emanation is right at the 'sound' heard, there and then. So we felt a center, a place, what we are feeling is an impression that is thought-bound. It is really the feeling of the idea in a more subtle form rather than awareness in its nakedness.

Next when the mind is free of definitions and symbols, it loses all its 'quantitative' characteristics. Eternality for example, is not an endless duration from past to future; instead it is right in/at this instant; how deep, beautiful, real and clear it is in this instantaneous moment. All attributes (Realness, Luminosity, Unborn, Uncreated...etc) of Awareness are manifested instantly. How much we know about our pristine Awareness is determined by the quality of this moment of experience. In Buddhism it is what can be experienced in a speck of dust and all these have to do with the thoroughness of dropping the 'Self', every aspect of the 'Self' (as a container, as body, as habitual momentum). Do not place any limit on the experience of 'Isness', there is no depth to it... Mr. Green

Thanks Thusness for the beautiful post.

It all sounds and feels very right to me, especially the last sentence! Mr. Green

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