Suzanne Segal

JonLS SG

Have any of you heard the story of Suzanne Segal?

If you have a few minutes, do visit the link below, it may be a worthwhile visit!

http://www.nonduality.com/suzanne.htm

Thusness SG

If someone draws a line in the thin air and is able to plant a seed into a lay persons inmost consciousness that he cant go beyond this line, that lay person will feel that the so called imaginary boundary is as solid as a physical wall. The way we are bonded to dualistic view of a Self is similar. A strong sense of Witnessing Presence without going beyond that "invisible line" is not the experience of no-self in buddhism and therefore I would not call her experience an insight into no-self. The negative experiences she had seem more like very strong self/Self propensities, it is a form of split, a separation.

Staying in no-self is to be fully authenticated by all things and as all things. Fear arises because of this lack of authentication. She sank too deeply into the 'content'. This is the case of "dark nights" where propensities rushed into manifestations. Her attempt to reason herself out will not work. Logical reasoning cannot break that 'bond' and she just couldn't help reacting to it.
One way out is to practice and develop the mental habit of "dissolving" every moment before "content" arise. The mental habit of dissolving will become a strength of it own to counter this problem.

In true no-self experience, the first aspect is the cognitive mind loses its charm and is replaced with intuitive and direct experience. Only the qualities of our nature are experience (clarity, radiance, presence and vitality), nothing about symbols, labels and content. Second, the illusionary view of a "Self' on top of manifestation is dissolved; There is complete rest in appearance. Nothing needs be done and therefore there can only be the experience of liberation as that boundary, that separation dissapeared. Nothing is obstructing anything in the experience of no-self.

JonLS SG

In true no-self experience, the first aspect is the cognitive mind loses its charm and is replaced with intuitive and direct experience. Only the qualities of our nature are experience (clarity, radiance, presence and vitality), nothing about symbols, labels and content. Second, the illusionary view of a "Self' on top of manifestation is dissolved; There is complete rest in appearance. Nothing needs be done and therefore there can only be the experience of liberation as that boundary, that separation dissapeared. Nothing is obstructing anything in the experience of no-self.

This sounds very good to me, thank you. Very Happy

One way out is to practice and develop the mental habit of "dissolving" every moment before "content" arise. The mental habit of dissolving will become a strength of it own to counter this problem.

Can you explain more about the mental habit of dissolving every moment before content arises.

This reminds of something I read about the content of the present moment needing to rematerialize over and over again.

An Eternal Now SG

Thanks for posting about Suzanne Segal.. I have read about her story before.

marcteng SG

whats her story abt?

could u summarise her story, tks Smile

An Eternal Now SG

It's all summarised here already: http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/segal.html

marcteng SG

tks, but its 2 long to read, got no time to read lar Mr. Green

An Eternal Now SG

Well.. JonLS already said.. If you have a few minutes, do visit the link below, it may be a worthwhile visit!

marcteng SG

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Well.. JonLS already said.. [b]If you have a few minutes, do visit the link below, it may be a worthwhile visit![/b]

how does it relate to buddhism?

An Eternal Now SG

She has experienced some degrees of the luminosity (clarity, awareness) aspect of our Buddha Nature, however, without deep insights into no-self, she will fall back into a sense of self witnessing the world. Her experience is known as Witnessing Consciousness, there is a subtle form of dualistic Witness detached from all phenomena, witnessing everything.

The 'no-self' she talked about is just a losing the sense of 'personality', not the true Buddhism's No-Self in the sense of the insight into the illusion of subject and object. Neither has she experienced fusing (stage 2), as fusing into everything is a stage of being fully authenticated by all things. Even after experiencing fusing, it can remain a stage that can be entered and left, only Stage 4/5 onwards will there be pathlessness due to the insight that our buddha nature is never separated from the manifestation/phenomena, and as a result the fusing will not be a temporary experience that can be left, but will be without entry and exit.

Therefore her experience is not 'complete' in Buddhism. See Thusness's reply in this thread. Also see Thusness's six stages of experience, http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=210722&page=3, Suzanne's experience would be Stage 1.

Eric Cartman SG

how do these random people experience all these sort of weird things?

An Eternal Now SG

Buddhism always talks about conditions. So there must be some conditions leading to her experience. Tibetan teachings say that in certain conditions a Bardo state will be experienced and there could be a glimpse of clear light, but it is often too fast for us to notice it and know ourselves to be inseperable from it, including at the time of death.

http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-JOCP/jc88033.htm

When these three groups of conceptual minds weaken and
cease, subtler levels of mind manifest during uncontrolled processes as in fainting, going to sleep, ending a dream, experiencing orgasm, sneezing, and dying.[21] In these states, the currents of energy that drive the various levels of gross consciousness withdraw and temporarily cease, resulting in a series of eight altered levels of mind. First there are four preliminary levels of the withdrawal of the energies that drive usual consciousness and then four dramatic levels of deeper mind.

Thusness says even conditions like low blood pressure leading to state of fainting, and Pregnancy included. It can lead to a state of dissociation... therefore Stage 1 Presence is experienced. Her ears popping could also somehow triggered it.

However without understanding no-self, you will be stuck at the Witness level. What she experience is empowering Presence into 'thought', as a thought body. In Buddhism we must experience the luminosity without influence of our thoughts.