Buddhism's Stance on Abortion

last SG · 2007-01-12T00:37:46+00:00

Thanks an eternal now for the true story on abortion , that helps answer alot of suspicion that i have ony my mind for a few years already ….. Think thats en...

An Eternal Now SG

And your point is? How is it relevant to this topic at all?

An Eternal Now SG

But lots of your post doesn't make sense.

Herzog_Zwei SG

Neither do yours....

An Eternal Now SG

Nope, all my posts are in accordance to this forum topic, "Buddhism's Stance on Abortion", whereas your posts have little to do with this topic. I merely replied your posts in order to find out what you are trying to say but in the end it seems to have no relevance.

Herzog_Zwei SG

And I am stating that your stance is against common as well as medical sense.

yamizi SG

AEN,

I think that Herzog_Zwei is trying to say that not all foetues are formed completely and healthy and therefore it is up to the couples' decision in whether to go for abortion or not.

It's always easy to say that even if incomplete, not healthy we should not abort, and people will go on quoting famous people like Beethovan and such. But how many people willing to take such a chance and responsiblities?

My stand is that a deliberate attempt to abort a child should be avoided in accordance with our first precept. However, living in realistic and painful world we all sometimes will be put into circumstances that a difficult choice has to be made.

The point is that do what one ought to do and be responsible for it.

Herzog_Zwei SG

Coming close to what I was trying to express.

An Eternal Now SG

I have never suggested that abortion should never be done under all circumstances, but I pointed earlier on that abortions done out of so called "unavoidable circumstances" such as danger to maternal or fetal health makes up only 5 to 10% of all abortions, while most of the abortions could be avoided. I also made a point that 25% of fetuses in Singapore are aborted, and it wouldn't make sense that much of the numbers are aborted due to health reasons but usually they are aborted due to unwillingness and other avoidable reasons.

In any case I also have to make a point that even if abortion is done under circumstances such as health reasons, we cannot just say there will not be karmic effects.. as Yamizi is said, karma isn't just a system to judge a person. The act of killing the baby, causing tremendous pain, taking away life, itself has karma even though it might be done under various circumstances. The same goes for euthanasia, even if choices are made due to that circumstance it doesn't mean no karma will be created. So even though the karmic effects may not be the same as, say abortion done out of unwillingness to bear a child, we should bear in mind that all abortions will result in some form of karma, and therefore, we should under such circumstances try to lighten our karma and his karma and dedicate merits to the child.

An Eternal Now SG

Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

Sure, you can help me ask him

However I am also citing the likelihood that many may use fictitious medical issues as an excuse to have abortion (at least from what I heard this is a common practice in Taiwan). In Singapore I have no idea.

Here is what I found, that Singapore only has 2% of abortions made due to maternal risks (http://www.nrlc.org/news/2001/NRL12/randy.html):

6. Zambia reported 3.4% citing maternal risk, Singapore 7.3% (1984) and 2% (1985), Colombia 8.8%, Mexico 8.3%.

Here are the figures of Thailand and U.S:

Thailand U.S.

Wants to postpone childbearing 16.1% 25.5%

Wants no (more) children 36.3% 7.9%

Cannot afford a baby 18.5% 21.3%

Having a baby will disrupt 8.5% 10.8%

education or job

Has relationship problem or partner 3.3% 14.1%

does not want pregnancy

Too young: parent(s) or other(s) 2.7% 12.2%

object to pregnancy

Risk to maternal health 5.1% 2.8%

Risk to fetal health 5.1% 3.3%

Other 5.1% 2.1%

-----

Like I suspected, reasons like teenage sex, unwillingness to take care of children, etc etc which all seems to be avoidable as long as the parents take the [b]responsibilities, makes up most of the abortion cases while health reasons are only about 5 to 10%.[/b]

Turns out that out of all Singapore's abortions, only about 3% are done due to health reasons:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9551373&dopt=Abstract *

Department of Obstetrics and Gynaecology, National University Hospital, National University of Singapore, Singapore.

STUDY OBJECTIVE: Abortion legislation in Singapore has gone through dramatic changes in the past 25 years. In this paper, we studied the effect of abortion legislation on abortion trends in Singapore. SETTING AND PARTICIPANTS: The Ministry of Health, Singapore, collects data on all abortions performed in Singapore. These data have been analyzed and are presented in this paper. RESULTS: The liberalization of abortion legislation resulted in a dramatic increase in the number of abortions performed beginning in 1974. The rate peaked at 23,512 abortions in 1985, and in fact, 35% of all pregnancies were terminated in 1985. The introduction of mandatory abortion counseling in 1986 resulted in a decline in the number of abortions to 16,476 in 1993 with only 24.6% of pregnancies being terminated. The teenage abortion rate was 0.2 per 1000 female teenagers under 20 years of age in 1970. With the liberalization of abortions, the rate reached a peak of 13.7 per 1000 female teenagers in 1985. In 1993, the teenage abortion rate was 9.5%. The proportion of nulliparous women seeking abortion has increased phenomenally from 0.5% in 1976 to 40.6% in 1993. Close to 95% of the women seeking abortions in 1993 did so for social reasons, 3.7% for medical reasons, and 2.0% for failed contraception (Table 3). CONCLUSION: Mandatory abortion counseling and a change in the government policy which now encourages Singaporeans to have more children if they can afford it, have resulted in a decrease in the number of abortions being performed. The problems of teenage abortions, nulliparous abortions, and repeated abortions need to be further addressed.

PMID: 9551373 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

oldkid SG

There is no doubt when an action is performed regardless of the motivation, karma is created. The only difference here is correct motivation will yield less intensity when bearing fruit.

It is pretty difficult to discuss if destroying the life of a deformed baby just to prevent his/her future sufferings after been born is helping that sentient being. We cannot see the future.

That act of destorying a life has negative karma been created, even if it is really preventing his/her suffering.

Just know that you will need to have correct views in order to have correct motivations. Every situation is different and alot of contemplation is needed.

Cherrio

Herzog_Zwei SG

Hence I said this thread is more for those with unplanned pregnancies and not pregnancies that have to be terminated due to medical cause.

An Eternal Now SG

Well.. I did said something for those of medical cause as well.

Herzog_Zwei SG

Then please don't generalise that abortion is an unskillful act, there is a need for it and it is not murder when one life is taken so that another may continue.

An Eternal Now SG

I did not generalise that abortion is an unskillful act in my posts, it depends on which situation, and nevertheless as I said there is karma even if it is a so called 'skillful act', and there are steps we can take to lessen these effects and help the deceased.

Whether it is skillful or an unskillful act, it does not change the fact that abortion is killing. It might be murder in the sense that it is done with ill will or killed against the law, although in most cases abortion is committed without the right thought and reasons.

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