The Ultimate Truth (Emptiness)

last SG · 2006-05-12T21:36:20+00:00

an outline of a circle can also explain emptiness. the outside line exist but the inside is kong/empty. /\

chunyong SG

alamak, even if u can talk it, unlikely u can walk it....if its so easy, everyone also enlightened liao...

sinweiy SG

Originally posted by chunyong:
alamak, even if u can talk it, unlikely u can walk it....if its so easy, everyone also enlightened liao...[/b]

Laughing u 2 bery funny. (mean it as compliment) yes, that's right, Buddhism should be lifely, 'huo huo puo puo' and not dead. Cool

here's more "talk":
http://www.buddhistinformation.com/be_a_lamp_upon_yourself.htm

Examples Of Emptiness
An analogy to explain Sunyata is a river. A river does not truly exists on its own as it consists of many streams of water coming and going, that make up its substance. Each of these streams is just as unsubstantial, each consisting of smaller and smaller streams within it as substance. There is no substantial or "real" river - there is only the flowing. We say that the river is empty of a real fixed nature - exhibiting Emptiness. Everything in the Universe (all physical and mental phenomena) exhibits characteristics of Emptiness.

Another example is a waterfall. A waterfall seen from a distance appears like a shiny solid sheet in one complete piece. But upon closer inspection we see clearly that the "piece" is only a continuous flowing stream of water. There is essentially no fixed "waterfall" - there is only water falling.

Two Sides Of Emptiness
Here is a useful maxim to remember the core concept of Sunyata/emptiness by:

Sunyata Affirms the Existence of Existence;
Sunyata Negates the Self-nature of Existence.

This means that Emptiness does not deny the existence of each and every thing, but it denies the existence of a fixed unchanging self behind each and every thing.

Using a river again as an example, we can say that a river (made up of many small streams) exists dependently or conditionally on the streams - this illustrates the first aspect of the above maxim. Because the river flows on and on (keeps changing), or unconditionally (as it has no unchanging identity or self) - this illustrates the second aspect of the maxim.

Emptiness And The Middle Way
The above two aspects of Emptiness should be realized together as they balance to show the Middle Way beyond all extremes.

Realizing the first aspect of Emptiness without the second can lead one to be greedy and selfish-falsely, believing that all pleasures and material things are "real" and lasting.

Realizing the second aspect without the first can lead one to be pessimistic, passive or immoral, falsely believing that nothing is worth striving for as everything is hollow and meaningless.

It is therefore very important to see both these aspects together in order to function with Wisdom in a balanced way in everyday life. One should learn to perceive everything as they are while knowing the true nature of their existence. One who realizes Emptiness is able to live positively with great ease and freedom, treasuring everything without attachment.

Emptiness Is Not Nothingness
Emptiness does not mean physical or mental nothingness - it is the law of total openness and infinite possibilities. Emptiness, is like the vast clear sky that allows clouds, birds, planes etc. to come in and go by, allowing infinite phenomena to occur within it. Emptiness is thus infinitely more than everything that the unenlightened can perceive. It is because of Emptiness that everything, including ourselves, can continually change for the better. Anything can transform into something else when the right combination of causes and conditions is present. Similarly, anyone can become Enlightened if one cultivates spiritually. Emptiness is thus a teaching full of hope.

Emptiness Mind And Matter
Emptiness applies to all physical entities. Much more subtly, it applies to all mental entities (mind-states).

All physical entities upon closer inspection are only unceasing fluctuations of molecules, of atoms, of electrons, neutrons and protons, of particles, of sub-atomic particles of... energy. All is only infinite manifestations of energy.

All mental entities upon closer inspection are only processes that change subtly all of the time. For example, we know we have thoughts, but how subtly each though flows to another and another is most unnoticeable to the untrained Mind.

The Magic Of Emptiness

Things are entirely what they appear to be,
and behind them...
there is "nothing."

Before us is everything but behind everything is nothing substantial (as all is constant change). But everything here is indeed here! And the "nothing" that is behind them is here at the same place and time too!

Everything the same; Everything distinct.
Everything is same in the sense that all are equally empty. However, everything is distinctly different as they manifest in countless forms. "Everything" also refers to all of one's possessions, family, health, wealth, fame etc.

As in the river analogy (see "Examples of Sunyata"), the river is both here and not here in the same place and time. This applies to everything. The whole wide world that we know is "real yet unreal" at the same time. It is the ultimate "magic trick" that the unenlightened fails to see and be amazed at!

Benefits Of Realizing Emptiness
Our Ignorance is seeing the illusory as being "too real" - we see the constantly changing as unchanging and become attached to the unsubstantial. Ignorance of not seeing the unreality of the self creates suffering centering around our false sense of self. There is no hint of a fixed self in anything physical or mental. There is no "I, you, my, your..." When self is realized to be empty and unreal, all opposing differences disappear - all are seen just as they are in their naked reality without empty labels, judgments or prejudice.

Being able to apply Emptiness in daily life brings unlimited ease and happiness as one becomes free of the burden of attachment. Realizing Emptiness is to attain the Wisdom of selflessness (to see the non-self of everything). The functioning of selflessness is Compassion. Thus, true Wisdom is compassionate and true Compassion is wise - they are interdependently linked. Both perfection of Wisdom and Compassion form the twin peaks of spiritual cultivation or Enlightenment.

As we familiarize ourselves with Emptiness, we gradually open our minds and free ourselves from the bonds of Ignorance that misconceives reality. In time, we will eliminate all Ignorance, anger, attachment, pride, jealousy and other disturbing attitudes from our Mind. By doing so, we cease to create the destructive actions motivated by them. We will thus be freed from all problems. In other words, realizing Emptiness brings True Happiness.

As a summary, a practical application of Emptiness in everyday life would be:

To Treasure Everything
(in this moment)
as All is Transient;

To Be Unattached to Everything
(in this moment)
as All Is Transient.

/\

chunyong SG

Originally posted by sinweiy:

u 2 bery funny. (mean it as compliment) yes, that's right, Buddhism should be lifely, 'huo huo puo puo' and not dead.

here's more "talk":
http://www.buddhistinformation.com/be_a_lamp_upon_yourself.htm

Examples Of Emptiness
An analogy to explain Sunyata is a river. A river does not truly exists on its own as it consists of many streams of water coming and going, that make up its substance. Each of these streams is just as unsubstantial, each consisting of smaller and smaller streams within it as substance. There is no substantial or "real" river - there is only the flowing. We say that the river is empty of a real fixed nature - exhibiting Emptiness. Everything in the Universe (all physical and mental phenomena) exhibits characteristics of Emptiness.

Another example is a waterfall. A waterfall seen from a distance appears like a shiny solid sheet in one complete piece. But upon closer inspection we see clearly that the "piece" is only a continuous flowing stream of water. There is essentially no fixed "waterfall" - there is only water falling.

Two Sides Of Emptiness
Here is a useful maxim to remember the core concept of Sunyata/emptiness by:

[b]Sunyata Affirms the Existence of Existence;
Sunyata Negates the Self-nature of Existence.

This means that Emptiness does not deny the existence of each and every thing, but it denies the existence of a fixed unchanging self behind each and every thing.

Using a river again as an example, we can say that a river (made up of many small streams) exists dependently or conditionally on the streams - this illustrates the first aspect of the above maxim. Because the river flows on and on (keeps changing), or unconditionally (as it has no unchanging identity or self) - this illustrates the second aspect of the maxim.

Emptiness And The Middle Way
The above two aspects of Emptiness should be realized together as they balance to show the Middle Way beyond all extremes.

Realizing the first aspect of Emptiness without the second can lead one to be greedy and selfish-falsely, believing that all pleasures and material things are "real" and lasting.

Realizing the second aspect without the first can lead one to be pessimistic, passive or immoral, falsely believing that nothing is worth striving for as everything is hollow and meaningless.

It is therefore very important to see both these aspects together in order to function with Wisdom in a balanced way in everyday life. One should learn to perceive everything as they are while knowing the true nature of their existence. One who realizes Emptiness is able to live positively with great ease and freedom, treasuring everything without attachment.

Emptiness Is Not Nothingness
Emptiness does not mean physical or mental nothingness - it is the law of total openness and infinite possibilities. Emptiness, is like the vast clear sky that allows clouds, birds, planes etc. to come in and go by, allowing infinite phenomena to occur within it. Emptiness is thus infinitely more than everything that the unenlightened can perceive. It is because of Emptiness that everything, including ourselves, can continually change for the better. Anything can transform into something else when the right combination of causes and conditions is present. Similarly, anyone can become Enlightened if one cultivates spiritually. Emptiness is thus a teaching full of hope.

Emptiness Mind And Matter
Emptiness applies to all physical entities. Much more subtly, it applies to all mental entities (mind-states).

All physical entities upon closer inspection are only unceasing fluctuations of molecules, of atoms, of electrons, neutrons and protons, of particles, of sub-atomic particles of... energy. All is only infinite manifestations of energy.

All mental entities upon closer inspection are only processes that change subtly all of the time. For example, we know we have thoughts, but how subtly each though flows to another and another is most unnoticeable to the untrained Mind.

The Magic Of Emptiness

Things are entirely what they appear to be,
and behind them...
there is "nothing."

Before us is everything but behind everything is nothing substantial (as all is constant change). But everything here is indeed here! And the "nothing" that is behind them is here at the same place and time too!

Everything the same; Everything distinct.
Everything is same in the sense that all are equally empty. However, everything is distinctly different as they manifest in countless forms. "Everything" also refers to all of one's possessions, family, health, wealth, fame etc.

As in the river analogy (see "Examples of Sunyata"), the river is both here and not here in the same place and time. This applies to everything. The whole wide world that we know is "real yet unreal" at the same time. It is the ultimate "magic trick" that the unenlightened fails to see and be amazed at!

Benefits Of Realizing Emptiness
Our Ignorance is seeing the illusory as being "too real" - we see the constantly changing as unchanging and become attached to the unsubstantial. Ignorance of not seeing the unreality of the self creates suffering centering around our false sense of self. There is no hint of a fixed self in anything physical or mental. There is no "I, you, my, your..." When self is realized to be empty and unreal, all opposing differences disappear - all are seen just as they are in their naked reality without empty labels, judgments or prejudice.

Being able to apply Emptiness in daily life brings unlimited ease and happiness as one becomes free of the burden of attachment. Realizing Emptiness is to attain the Wisdom of selflessness (to see the non-self of everything). The functioning of selflessness is Compassion. Thus, true Wisdom is compassionate and true Compassion is wise - they are interdependently linked. Both perfection of Wisdom and Compassion form the twin peaks of spiritual cultivation or Enlightenment.

As we familiarize ourselves with Emptiness, we gradually open our minds and free ourselves from the bonds of Ignorance that misconceives reality. In time, we will eliminate all Ignorance, anger, attachment, pride, jealousy and other disturbing attitudes from our Mind. By doing so, we cease to create the destructive actions motivated by them. We will thus be freed from all problems. In other words, realizing Emptiness brings True Happiness.

As a summary, a practical application of Emptiness in everyday life would be:

To Treasure Everything
(in this moment)
as All is Transient;

To Be Unattached to Everything
(in this moment)
as All Is Transient.

/\

[/b]

samething like NPNT...talk so much bo eng, walk it out and show us u accomplished it

casino_king SG

Unfortunately I do not believe in supernatural enlightenment. What I do believe is that Buddha's teaching like Jesus' teaching is very helpful for everyday living.

That is why I do not look at Buddha's sutras in awe and wonder but see how it can help people who are troubled.

"Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form" is very useful for me. It teaches that one should not look at anything with judgement. That is to say, one do not conclude if it is Good or Bad. "Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form" would suggest that there is both Good and Bad in everything. The is nothing perfectly good and nothing perfectly bad in this world. One only see if that thing causes suffering and to whom it causes suffering. It must not be judged to be inherently Good or Bad.

An Eternal Now SG

Yea, we must walk it out, but yet we cannot say that we accomplished or attained 'Emptiness' - for in Heart Sutra it says,

"There is No Wisdom, and There is No Attainment Whatsoever."

"Because There is Nothing to Be Attained,
The Bodhisattva Relying On Prajna Paramita Has
No Obstruction in His Mind."

casino_king SG

I am shock that you can say this... maybe I got all you you mixed up.

Read the other thread : Buddhism cannot be discussed openly? and tell me that Buddhists posting at that thread (I thought including you) are not insisting that a certain "way" and certain interpretations are best?

I kept telling you in that thread to give up on certain Buddhists dogma arguing that Buddha in his parable of the raft also encouraged it.

But the post there kept insisting on the dogmas that I had to give up on that posts.

Now you tell us: "There is No Wisdom, and There is No Attainment Whatsoever." "Because There is Nothing to Be Attained,
The Bodhisattva Relying On Prajna Paramita Has
No Obstruction in His Mind."

I must tell you to please walk the talk.

An Eternal Now SG

Originally posted by casino_king:
I am shock that you can say this... maybe I got all you you mixed up.

Read the other thread : Buddhism cannot be discussed openly? and tell me that Buddhists posting at that thread (I thought including you) are not insisting that a certain "way" and certain interpretations are best?

Dont quite get you.. pls elaborate

I kept telling you in that thread to give up on certain Buddhists dogma arguing that Buddha in his parable of the raft also encouraged it.

Give up on certain Buddhist dogma? I told you there is no dogmas in Buddhism in the previous thread.

And I dont get it - what has all this got to do with this thread? What's your point? I dont know what you're talking about.

But the post there kept insisting on the dogmas that I had to give up on that posts.

It had never insisted on the dogmas - and you have never replied me yet on what I replied you. Wanna start another thread begin? (which is a little tiring - since it's just copying and pasting what i have already said)

I'm all ready - and my exams are over Mr. Green

Now you tell us: "There is No Wisdom, and There is No Attainment Whatsoever." "Because There is Nothing to Be Attained,
The Bodhisattva Relying On Prajna Paramita Has
No Obstruction in His Mind."

I must tell you to please walk the talk.

Exactly. 'Walk the talk'. But dont talk the walk - that's what I've been telling.

An Eternal Now SG

Enlightenment is not at all supernatural.

Pls remember the points we have discussed previously and not repeated the same mistakes.

casino_king SG

Let's define supernatural and get it over with once and for all instead of thi playing with words ok? It is pointless to say one thing and mean another. So you tell me what you consider super natural.

Buddhist claim that their are beings with what everyone else would called god characteristics and yet Buddhist does not recognise them as god - confusing everybody. It is like, everybody calls it a duck but Buddhists call it chicken. Not helpful.

Everybody on earth calls walking on water supernatural but Buddhists say, no it is not. Not helpful.

If you want to say walking on water is not supernatural, then you must come up with a new word. Otherwise you are just confusing yourself.

An Eternal Now SG

All these have NOTHING to do with Enlightenment - so there is nothing for me to discuss here.

surfer188 SG

I just want to relate what I experiance upon emptiness thru meditation.

Once I was in meditations on Emptiness. It was some years back. Was to investigate.

First was projecting a wooden table in the mind. Like a scientist using the mind to "look" at the material, structure, name & space it occupy. The structure, name & space boils down to nothing. Then "look" into the wood. Then "look" into the elements of wood. Then "look" further on. There is no permante structure, no permante wood or permante name. Then everything starts to flow or transform. Particle flows. I step back & watch (in the mind) everything starts to flow.

My experiance was, Everything, I mean everything including soul, body, material, earth & stars & whatever contained is just a flow. It's constantly flowing, changing from state to state at different speed & directions. Like atoms, flowing different speed & directions. Dust like particle. It's just constantly changing, but my state of mind is observed as stable, non-influencing, baseless & not Thinking when this happen.

This state of mind I can't hold it for too long. And could not understand fully at first when I come out of meditations. It was by later days when meditate upon own body, this "Flowing" Effect comes back. There is not permante body, no body as if all other equipment must functions together to form.

In-accidently I have use the same meditation methods to "look" at Karma. Comes back to be flowing again, but more like windy blowing at different directions, speeds, .... We experiances it but not able grap anything.

To my bad practices, still not been able to eradicate my own state of mind to recognise total mind stability.

In my own words I would say, meaning of emptiness in buddhist terms is much like transforming of energy from one state to another. Which is empty of no permante self characteristic. In no double we do experiance something but of non-lasting effect, like a thin shell.

casino_king SG

I had done meditation and had some weird experiences too. If I were you I wouldn't make too much out of it.

paperflower SG

one is aware with everyone, everything; everyone and everything is doing..... but one does nothing by just simply naturally be in the pure present moment with everyone and everything - when non-emptiness is seen, emptiness is also seen.....

neutral_onliner SG

We can infer that mental experience requires sensory experience, or respectively memory of sensory experience. Sensory experience in turn requires the body. If we carried through a thought experiment and examined whether each of the skandhas is able to exist without the other four, we would find that this is not possible. The latter four aggregates all depend on the body. Without the brain and the nervous system there is no consciousness, no sensation, no perception, and no mental formations. On the other hand, we cannot imagine the body to function without the mind. The body and the mind depend on each other, the five skandhas depend on each other. We must conclude that none of the skandhas is fundamental. Body, sensations, perceptions, mental formations, and consciousness are interrelated. Experiences emerge from the interaction of all five skandhas. Just as objects, experiences are conditioned by the interplay of multiple phenomena. Experience has no inherent existence either.

Our brain is advanced enough to reflect on its experiences. By means of self-reference we can direct mental activity onto itself. For example, we can think about thought. From this arises a division between subject, percept, and object. The percept is the mental impression, the subject is the owner of it, the thinker, and the object is that which causes the mental impression. This threefold division seems so natural to us that it is reflected in the grammar of most human languages. We perceive the separation of subject, percept, and object as real, because mind attributes an owner to experience and thought. This owner is the "self", the subject, the centre of consciousness, the supposed psychological entity. Surprisingly, this entity remains completely undetectable. Body, feeling, perception, and mental formations are not the self. Consciousness is not the self either, otherwise it would follow that the self temporarily ceases to exist during unconscious states, for example during deep sleep.

We might ask how "self" can be independent of a surrounding world. Is it possible for the self to exist in a mental vacuum, a world devoid of sense impressions, thought, and mental images? Would the self not literally run out of fuel if it lacked thoughts and contents to identify itself with or to set itself apart from? It seems there is no basis an independent entity. It seems more that the self is an emergent phenomenon arising from the application of complex interpretative schemes to perception. In particular, it arises from the conceptual division between subject, object, and percept. Through introspection it is possible to realise that the "self" is not fundamental. It is created by the mind through identification and discernment. The "self" is itself a mental formation - a product of mind. It is therefore empty of inherent existence.

Self - No Self

casino_king SG

Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
We can infer that mental experience requires sensory experience, or respectively memory of sensory experience. Sensory experience in turn requires the body. If we carried through a thought experiment and examined whether each of the skandhas is able to exist without the other four, we would find that this is not possible. The latter four aggregates all depend on the body. [b]Without the brain and the nervous system there is no consciousness, no sensation, no perception, and no mental formations. On the other hand, we cannot imagine the body to function without the mind. The body and the mind depend on each other, the five skandhas depend on each other. We must conclude that none of the skandhas is fundamental. Body, sensations, perceptions, mental formations, and consciousness are interrelated. Experiences emerge from the interaction of all five skandhas. Just as objects, experiences are conditioned by the interplay of multiple phenomena. Experience has no inherent existence either.

Our brain is advanced enough to reflect on its experiences. By means of self-reference we can direct mental activity onto itself. For example, we can think about thought. From this arises a division between subject, percept, and object. The percept is the mental impression, the subject is the owner of it, the thinker, and the object is that which causes the mental impression. This threefold division seems so natural to us that it is reflected in the grammar of most human languages. We perceive the separation of subject, percept, and object as real, because mind attributes an owner to experience and thought. This owner is the "self", the subject, the centre of consciousness, the supposed psychological entity. Surprisingly, this entity remains completely undetectable. Body, feeling, perception, and mental formations are not the self. Consciousness is not the self either, otherwise it would follow that the self temporarily ceases to exist during unconscious states, for example during deep sleep.

We might ask how "self" can be independent of a surrounding world. Is it possible for the self to exist in a mental vacuum, a world devoid of sense impressions, thought, and mental images? Would the self not literally run out of fuel if it lacked thoughts and contents to identify itself with or to set itself apart from? It seems there is no basis an independent entity. It seems more that the self is an emergent phenomenon arising from the application of complex interpretative schemes to perception. In particular, it arises from the conceptual division between subject, object, and percept. Through introspection it is possible to realise that the "self" is not fundamental. It is created by the mind through identification and discernment. The "self" is itself a mental formation - a product of mind. It is therefore empty of inherent existence.

Self - No Self [/b]

When you die, there is no self because all that constitute "self" ceases to become an entity and become separate parts.

Just like you plant a bomb in a car and the car explodes into different parts and is no longer a car.

Why is that so difficult for you to understand? Why do you not accept that?

neutral_onliner SG

No...no...no..Whether u die or not there is NOT SELF...pls read carefully Cool

An Eternal Now SG

In Buddhism there wasnt a self to begin with. Self is an illusion.

neutral_onliner SG

well...i don think casino understand tat (just stay tune for his next comment Cool )

surfer188 SG

Initiat experiances of deep meditation do have weird experiances. This is very normal. You should have go on further & not just be disturbed by it.

In my own words (May not be fully correct) of this weird experiances during initiat deep meditations :

Idea Our brain is very used to informations from our physical senses. When we silence down or stop this internal commications, brain or natural process trys to "Jump Starts" the body & "dial" to central control for advise (Make Noise).

Idea or brain is trying to "Self-explain" this silence experiance. (Self-indulge)

Idea or trying to make sense of what's happening. Trying to figure out what is this.

A bad example in medical terms is when a person is brain dead, the organs still functions for some durations. But some how, the organ will "Realise" the brain is dead & stop functioning. But this organ stopping does not happen when we sleep.

I always make jokes that when brain's activity receive no-dial-tone it makes hell of noise on it's end. Mr. Green

Anyway, is brain contolling that non-self or non-self is trying to tell a story out of nothing? Up to you to decide. Smile

casino_king SG

If Buddha is not an entity; what then are you people "Domo" to and many who calls themselves Buddhist worship?

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