Are you trying to tell me to be enlightened immediately?

last SG · 2006-07-26T22:34:49+00:00

I don't mean there is really a "you" that identifies. That is just a conventional mean of saying. Rather, Identification arises out of causes and conditions...

Cenarious SG

You say that I should be compassionate to all other sentient beings because every sentient being dies. However I dont see whats the big deal with dying. What I see right now is suffering of people and people who think they are alone in their suffering therefore making it twice as much suffering. I see many people dying happily/peacefully.

An Eternal Now SG

Not only dying.

Cenarious SG

Yes. But since so few people are enlightened, most people still have discrimination and dualism. This causes suffering in life. This scenario makes me want to become enlightened. I dont see whats the deal with dying because everyonie has to die.

An Eternal Now SG

Well nothing wrong here. But if your motivation is wavered by an improvement in your living conditions, then that is not true motivation.

(i.e: you: everytime i see an ugly girl that i dont like, my will to become enlightened gets stronger.
Bontakun: What if you see a pretty gal? How will your will to enlightenment be affected?
you: then it weakens.)

Not necessarily ugly girl.

Cenarious SG

I'm just living in the present.

Cenarious SG

And because I’m not enlightened and is living in the present at the same time, I can’t see the suffering of pure existence without a stimulus.

mhcampboy SG

After a few pages of replying and answering, he will say.. too confusing already. close thread.

then he will open new one... Rolling Eyes

Cenarious SG

shh, kids dont interrupt adults talking.

An Eternal Now SG

I didn't really say that 'pure existence' (which i presume, your worldly existence in planet) = suffering.

Shakyamuni Buddha, in terms of conventional reality, existed 2500 years ago. After enlightenment, not a bit of suffering is left in him.

Cenarious SG

No. Pure existence anywhere. Buddha is beyond existing and non-existing.

An Eternal Now SG

Don't quite get you. Do you mean 'attachment to existence'?

Cenarious SG

just existing

An Eternal Now SG

And what do you mean by just existing?

When I said Shakyamuni Buddha existed 2500 years ago, you said no, then what does it mean by existing?

Cenarious SG

ageing and change

An Eternal Now SG

The deal is only when dying is for everyone, because that means that we cannot stop death by any means.

And dying means whatever you think you possess, are attached to, will eventually depart from you and you cannot hold unto them forever. Those with wisdom, seeing the nature of life as such, will want to seek an end to our bondage and dukkha.

Cenarious SG

if u identity buddha as forms then u got it wrong?

An Eternal Now SG

Ageing and change is as it is, but is a distress to sentient, unenlightened beings.

Similarly, sickness and death is as it is, but is a distress to sentient beings - and any of the 8 distresses are all for sentient beings. Buddha has no distresses.. whatever changes does not affect him.

An Eternal Now SG

That is why I said in conventional reality. In conventional reality, Shakyamuni Buddha was a living person who lived 2500 years ago, who can walk and talk. When we talk conventional things there is always time and space.

On ultimate reality, not only Buddha is empty and luminous, all sentient beings are by nature Buddhas - empty and luminous. The only difference is that one fully knows that reality directly - while the latter, still in ignorance of this reality.

Cenarious SG

but those dont distress me so am i enlightened?

An Eternal Now SG

They don't distress you because you haven't got them yet. You are currently not old, not sick, and still quite far from death if all goes well.

The reason why so many people are not awakened is because they do not have the wisdom to see beyond their present enjoyment/stability and take what they have for granted. So they do not even bother to find out about Buddhism or spirituality.