Will the soul leaves one when one meditate

last SG · 2006-05-18T01:09:30+00:00

ok. suddenly stunned abit. pai seh.

concerned_man SG

Have a rest with a clear mind. It will be better that you can realise it yourself. It is really difficult to explain such a high wisdom level thing, especially from a novice me.

This may help you as it has helped me.

neutral_onliner SG

ok so far so good huh...

in our ordinary view, things appear to have some true of inherent nature, as if they were really there, as if we could find these real, independent entities if we searched for them. They appear to be there, independent of the causes and conditions that created them, independent of the parts of which they are made, and independent of the mind which conceives and gives them a name. This is the appearance of true or inherent existence and our mind grasps it as real.

Actually they exist depending on causes and conditions, parts

ok take alook at this pic

An Eternal Now SG

Consciousness, in concerned_man's sense, is likened to a mirror that is ever reflecting what is happening. The reflections on the mirror is ever fluctuating, and sentient beings fail to see the true face of the mirror. Our mirror is the same as Buddha's mirror except that our mirror is full of dust, that which can be known as 'defilements', and therefore the buddhist practise of purifying the mind is to scrub the mirror until it becomes clear.

But yet again 'consciousness' shouldnt be understood in terms of an entity, but spontaneously in terms of clarity and mindfulness. 'Permanent' may not be a very correct way of putting it. It is merely said in this way as an analogy. Ppl pls correct me if i'm wrong.

laoda99 SG

yap so far so good...

so they exist depending on causes and conditions, means that they exist right? So they exist or not exist?

Originally posted by neutral_onliner:

ok so far so good huh...

in our ordinary view, things appear to have some true of inherent nature, as if they were really there, as if we could find these real, independent entities if we searched for them. They appear to be there, independent of the causes and conditions that created them, independent of the parts of which they are made, and independent of the mind which conceives and gives them a name. [b]This is the appearance of true or inherent existence and our mind grasps it as real.

Actually they exist depending on causes and conditions, parts

ok take alook at this pic

[/b]

laoda99 SG

But if nothing is permanent, how can conscious be able to pass on to another? Will it not just disappear somewhere?

concerned_man SG

I am trying to think of a right word to put it.

There is one thing that our karma reference to. If this is not permanent, then karma will not hold. At least the 8th Sense is a lasting storage space. What I wanted to say is that our mind (conciousness or maybe other better word) is actually the same as the Buddha - which breaks awaw from the boundary time.

What make us different from Buddha is that our mind has differentiation, thinking and wondering thoughts, and attachments. Which make us a Fan Fu. Buddha's XIN is in the state of perfect clarity with no differentiation, wondering thoughts and attachments. Which make Him a Buddha.

It is all the works of the mind, differentiate us from a Enlighten or sentinent being. It is between "MI" and "WU", but the mind is the same.

neutral_onliner SG

ok so in conventional term this bicycle exist no doubt but if u look carefully (let say for example the bicycle is made up of three part :

The metal structure
front wheel
rear wheel

now pls tell me where is the bicycle ? which part can be really considered a bicycle?

is The metal structure the bicycle?

or

is it the front wheel?

or

rear wheel?

laoda99 SG

All the parts then make up the bicycle.

If individual they are just parts.

neutral_onliner SG

hmm no reply maybe sleep liao ok tell next time Cool

Ito_^ SG

what if i leave my body den someone saw me..

eeek!! GHOST!!

laoda99 SG

got leh!!!

An Eternal Now SG

Therefore, we can say the bicycle is dependant on the various conditions and does not have an inherent existence.

neutral_onliner SG

yes correct so u see actually everything u see does not exist as a single entity.It is alway depended on other enity and condition.As for this example when all entities(wheel,metal structure) and all necessary conditons are met it will produced an effect when u eyes project on it. And ur mind will give a label called"bicycle" to it.To ur perception the bicycle seem so real so permanent as if it a single entity ,a one WHOLE item.BUT in actual fact in reality what the natural 'see' it just a wheel ,a metal structure and two wheels.There no bicycle in the 1st place.

try dismentle it part by part ..hey where is the bicycle now.

So u see we see thing thru the label we gave rather than see thing as they truly are

neutral_onliner SG

ok why not u go observe ur environment and see for yourself.Everything be it a car, a computer , a chair and photocopy machine , they DO NOT exist as a single entity.It is alway depended on other enity and condition.To put it simple it alway something plus something to give u something.however u mind will project them as if they are real so permanent as if it a single entity ,a one WHOLE item.And start giving labels.

neutral_onliner SG

hmmm think tis time really sleep liao gd nite Cool

surfer188 SG

Human language sometimes difficult to fully explain Dharma.

The word "Soul" or "Consciences" myself find pretty misleading for common to understand. I always find "Energy" may be a better word in place for Soul or Consciences. More towards science & easier to understand.

Many times meditator are been fooled by our wonderful mind. Do you know our minds can create "Movies" to entertain ourself? Don't be fool by images during meditations. Yes in meditations you can "KNOW" what others doing, seeing, feeling, or even know future or past-life. This is nothing of high skill at all & this is not the goal you want to achieve.

Just for understanding:
Out-of-body is not a good word to explain, rather "Knowing" or "Tune in to feel" is easier to understand.

"Knowing" for commonly to understand :
These "Knowing" of informations is like "Switching On to Listen" radio wave or ultra-violet wave or any kind of wave present in the air or enviroment. So basically meditations enable a person to tune inline to "Listen, feel, See, ..." You are not out-of-body. Just tune into the flows of energy & informations. There is no distant, time, past, present & future barrier. This informations is always there to be access. A clear minded experiance meditator can immediately switch on without sitting down to go into meditation state of mind.

Why the informations is always there: Go read about Karmaic effect, everything have cause & effect. Even a grass takes time, space to grow, so to karma & informations.

When we move from life to life Energy are always releasing, stored, mixing & matching. Karma seems to me is energy, it can be stored, release, attract, reject & used up. I can't explain further because of my limited understanding now.

That is why we should not cling onto things or bear feelings on anything. Everything happened do have it's cause. Buddhism is an training part. In the end, don't let Buddhism be your tripping stone. Wink

bohiruci SG

Seeing so many reply it is really good Cool

Because the next thing I can bring out is the Abidhamma training and the Mind-only school in Mahyana soon Smile

so do stay tuned Wink

Cool Cool Cool Cool

concerned_man SG

I wish to get my facts and understanding right. Nevertheless, I'll ascertain it for myself again. I remembered I came across Shen2 Shi2, which I am not quite sure whether is it the same as conciousness. Althought our Shen2 Shi2 is always there, but for Fan2 Fu1's, the Shi2 is always constantly changing.

Memories of all from the imnumeral past lives were stored here (the 8th sense, A1 Lai2 Ye2 Shi2) and our karma seeds were also registered. The seeds, depending of Yuan2 (Conditions) will contribute/realise to an effect over time, which can span across from 1 to many lifetimes.

Because, our Shi2 always differentiates, has constantly wondering thoughts and attachments, our mind actually created the samsara world we are now living. We are really what we think about and we actually created our world based on what is in our mind. "Yi2 Qie4 Fa3 Chong2 Xin1 Xiang3 Shen1, Wei2 Xin1 Suo3 Xian4, Wei2 Shi2 Suo3 Bian4".

The beautiful thing about Buddhism, to me, is the understanding of the mechanism of the mind. And they are spectacularly beautiful.

bohiruci SG

Shen shi is consciousness

A la ye shi in Yogacara Buddhism is term Alayavijnana

yi qie fa chong xin xiang shen ,wei xing suo xian , wei shi shuo bian

(All Pheonomena arise from the thinking mind,created by the mind ,and consciousness changes )

concerned_man SG

Wonderful! Smile

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