Lust and stimulation

022615 SG

There was a previous topic "Is yanking accepted?"

According to my view, a monk or a bikkhu must definitely be abstained from lust, this is absolute, a monk, since one is purely a disciple of the Dharma, must totally extinguish lust, and any form of thoughts of comfort in entertaining females is absolutely prohibited, more so to talk about behaviour (flirting). This is said for true monks.

How about a layperson? My stand is: he is allowed to have minimal lust, his level of lust must be lower than ordinary human, which is to say he can copulate to procreate. What about lusty stimulation (masturbating) then?

By right a buddhist must give it up, if not, I won't say he's wrong either. Here are some guidelines about stimulation, what are the other area he must observe strictly:

1.MUST NOT flirt with opposite gender
2.MUST NOT engage in adultery
3.MUST NOT engage in permarital copultion
4.MUST NOT be addicted to stimulation
5.any upper part of the body MUST NOT touch the lower organ in contact
6.if a layperson is lusty, he MUST try to behave as morally upright as possible, and as mature, in public

neutral_onliner SG

well 022615 using words MUST NOT is not very suitable in buddhism.

Morality in Buddhism is essentially practical in that it is only a means leading to the final goal of ultimate happiness. On the Buddhist path to Emancipation, each individual is considered responsible for his own fortunes and misfortunes. Each individual is expected to work his own deliverance by his understanding and effort. Buddhist salvation is the result of one's own moral development and can neither be imposed nor granted to one by some external agent. The Buddha's mission was to enlighten men as to the nature of existence and to advise them how best to act for their own happiness and for the benefit of others

Consequently, Buddhist ethics are not founded on any commandments which men are compelled to follow. The Buddha advised men on the conditions which were most wholesome and conducive to long term benefit for self and others. Rather than addressing sinners with such words as 'shameful', 'wicked', 'wretched', 'unworthy', and 'blasphemous' He would merely say, 'You are unwise in acting in such a way since this will bring sorrow upon yourselves and others.'

BTW Did u read up the info provided by An Eternal Now.
Have u by now understand why buddhism reject the theory of soul?

Well my fren we would like to share wf u and try to clear all ur doubts & misconception as possible as we can.

may u be happy Cool

An Eternal Now SG

022615: I must say, yours are good and wise guidelines, but as neutral onliner said, it is not necessary to say 'MUST NOT'.

If one truly cultivates his mind, then when defilements find no grounding on, naturally he will not be affected by these.

Therefore cultivating the mind is important, constantly watch the arising and ceasing of the thoughts.

Buddha gave hundreds of precepts to Bhikkhus, but if he can grasp the essence of dharma, all precepts will naturally not be broken, and he is abiding by the precepts in the highest stage.

In other words other than observing precepts, one must observe the mind. If one observes the mind, the naturally he wont have defiled actions, then naturally he does not need to rely on rules and precepts. After all, all the precepts are set by Buddha one by one only after they are being broken by his monks and lay disciples. If the world is a Pure Land, then what precepts is needed? And if your Mind is Pure, Land is pure Smile

talk_cock SG

"Form does not differ from emptiness,
emptiness does not differ from form.
That which is form is emptiness, that which is emptiness form"
If you understand, things are as they are.
If you do not understand, things are as they are.

Poems by Ikkyu:
A Man's Root
Eight inches strong, it is my favorite thing;
If I'm alone at night, I embrace it fully
A beautiful woman hasn't touched it for ages.
Within my fundoshi there is an entire universe!

A Woman's Sex
It has the original mouth but remains wordless;
It is surrounded by a magnificent mound of hair.
Sentient beings can get completely lost in it
But it is also the birthplace of all the Buddhas of the ten thousand worlds.

Rinzai's disciples never got the Zen message,
But I, the Blind Donkey, know the truth:
Love play can make you immortal.
The autumn breeze of a single night of love is better than a hundred thousand years of
sterile sitting meditation. . .

Stilted koans and convoluted answers are all monks have,
Pandering endlessly to officials and rich patrons.
Good friends of the Dharma, so proud, let me tell you,
A brothel girl in gold brocade is worth more than any of you.

Emerging from the world's grime, a puritan saint is still nowhere near a Buddha.
Enter a brothel once and Great Wisdom will explode upon you.
Manjushri should have let Ananda enjoy himself in the whorehouse
Now he will never know the joys of elegant love play.

A sex-loving monk, you object!
Hot-blooded and passionate, totally aroused.
Remember, though, that lust can consume all passion,
Transmuting base metal into pure gold.

The lotus flower
Is unstained by mud;
This single dewdrop,
Just as it is,
Manifests the real body of truth.

Follow the rule of celibacy blindly and you are no more than an ass;
Break it and you are only human.
The spirit of Zen is manifest in ways countless as the sands of the Ganges.
Every newborn is a fruit of the conjugal bond.
For how many aeons have secret blossoms been budding and fading?

With a young beauty, sporting in deep love play;
We sit in the pavilion, a pleasure girl and this Zen monk.
Enraptured by hugs and kisses,
I certainly don't feel as if I am burning in hell.

An Eternal Now SG

Crazy wisdom is not easily understood. Ikkyu is certainly one crazy enlightened master.

An Eternal Now SG

Also my experience is, by cultivating samadhi through meditation, our mind will be much less affected by lust.

neutral_onliner SG

thnks 4 sharing... this kind of discussion is veri positive as we r all on the path of learning Cool

talk_cock SG

Hiding your face behind a mask
Is like a dog chasing its own tail.
Running away from your own self,
why not stop and see your original face?

paperflower SG

Ikkyu's poem sounds more like a cheeky poem than an enlightened one. don't find any impressiveness or wisdom in it except for his witty sense of describing lust and making love in a mundane way.

An Eternal Now SG

From the mundane viewpoint yes.

paperflower SG

to add on, it sounds more porno than being enlightened.
think this should be put under the "category 3" section that falls for dirty jokes and poems. surely not for proper buddhist teachings.

An Eternal Now SG

Enlightened men are no longer bound by any conditioned rule/principle/method. Many people do not understand this point. That's why many crazy masters who are highly enlightened get mistaken.

Not to mention, there are seemingly "crazy" masters in modern times. Ever heard of Chogyam Trungpa? He is really enlightened too.

On the other hand there are also great masters who are highly and sometimes rigidly disciplined, and they can even appear to reprimand each other.

paperflower SG

Laughing is it really uh?

think i also can come up with one crazy poem. not that i'm implying i am wise or enlightened which i am not, think when you put your heart and mind into a topic deeply, anyone also can come up with one original poem thats speaks the mind the heart and the things around.

hahaaa Razz

An Eternal Now SG

Of cos not la...

anyway i sent u through a private msg, an anecdote of crazy masters. i shall not share it in public here lest more misunderstandings occur.

paperflower SG

some highly enlightened people can be so accentric sometimes..... Mr. Green

is this what they call art? like the great artists who can perform best "alone" in their own inner world that from the outside, sometimes people won't be able to understand their art work.

talk_cock SG

All enlightened masters get mistaken by unenlightened people.
The problem is not with the masters but the mindset of the people.
Mind likes to sleep, and rules help to make sleeping easier.

talk_cock SG

What is a poem to you?
A poem is not a sutra --- it is in fact an antithesis of a sutra.
To speak the heart and the mind, how many people can do that?

paperflower SG

oh really? i learn something new today.

ooops sorry for my unenlightened mind.

of cos i do know whats a poem and a sutra.

to speak the heart and mind, indeed not many can do that. like wise not less can't do that too.

Smile

paperflower SG

please do enlighten me some day.

Very Happy

talk_cock SG

A poem is a free flow of expression, the author captures his own expression.

A sutra is a set of teaching for others to follow, the author has to think of those who read it.

If you read the 1st verse of the the Tao De Jing or the Heart Sutra, the author begins with a disclaimer. After the disclaimer, the set of instructions can be taught.