Thoughts are Empty

last SG · 2006-03-22T02:04:17+00:00

Entire post below by namelessness: No thought, no form and no attachment is the quintessence of the Sutra. But it is not annihilation. It means to be detache...

Isis SG

I recently did a meditation and realise that all thought are empty...

Any comment on this??

An Eternal Now SG

And what do you mean by empty?

Isis SG

External, i find it hard to explain why i think thoughts are empty .. which is why i want to seek comments from people who has experience with meditation.

i was just wondering anyone here meditate on the arising and falling of thoughts? cos when i was beginning to meditate, i was having attachment to the random thoughts racing in my mind. Then i suddenly realise that these thought are empty and there is no point in attaching to them...

i can only roughly say that thoughts are empty in nature...

An Eternal Now SG

You are right.. thoughts are fleeting and ungraspable.

Life (Self) is nothing other than the continuous flow of the Now Moment.
The Now Moment ceases as it arises. This moment must completely ceased
and serves as the CAUSE for the next moment to arise.
Therefore Self is a process of series Self1, Self2, Self3, Self4, Self5, Self6...etc
A fixed entity 'Self' does not exist, what really exists is a momentary Self.
Under deep meditation, one is able to observe and sense the karmic and mental factors from moment to moment,
it is these factors that are succeeded from moment to moment and life and life but not a fixed entity.
When the karmic and mental factors subsides, it is known as "The True and Only (and Inherently egoless) Conscious Light (Itself)".

- Thusness

An Eternal Now SG

By the way do you have a meditation teacher?

LinYu SG

Thought process are just like a 24 frames per second movies. Usually we never notice them and they pass on just like a movie without noticing the gaps between each frame.

During the concentration meditation, you will slowly notice the gap between each frame. As you become more aware, you will notice that the gap widen. This is the period that you feel that it is so quiet or "empty" and it is very serene or peaceful.

maybe this is what you meant by the empty?
Laughing

paperflower SG

yes you are correct that thoughts do arise and fall even in meditation, besides the waking moments. meditation and waking moments are also meditating, we look at them as dreams, illusions, nothing real about them. so they are empty. being empty is also connecting with them recognising them with compassion without clinging attaching to them so in a way we also do not ignore them totally. emptiness is being with all.

nice to know that you understanding the nature of the mind and eventually lead you to find your inner self like you mentioned. soon you will know whats that inner self really means. Wink thats a good start. may you have a progressing practice.

Very Happy

maggot SG

Hmm...wonder if we learn the same type of mediation Rolling Eyes

I'm on sleeping style mediation Laughing

Anyway congrats you have reach some important level Very Happy

A level that will allow you to see more of things the way they really are Twisted Evil and you will be surprised

bohiruci SG

meditation on arising and falling of thoughts is part of Mahayana meditation method

It is one of the meditation of Sagaramudra Buddhist Institute

If you are interested , you can try to enrol for the whole course

marcteng SG

Thoughts are fleeting and fickle minded.

There is a verse on mind in the Dhammapada.

earthling82 SG

thoughts are not empty.

we look at them as dreams, illusions, nothing real about them. so they are empty. being empty is also connecting with them recognising them with compassion without clinging attaching to them

if you first need to see thoughts as "dreams, illusions and nothing real" before you can accept them, this is not true emptiness.

It is like you need the change the things around you before you can love them. Emptiness is all-abiding no matter what is within and without at the moment.

Compassion and Emptiness are the 2 sides of the same coin. So you do not need to change your views before you can have compassion. You can't have 1 without the other.

Fundamentally you are already whole and perfect. But you believed otherwise, which is what leads you to formulate views of emptiness and compassion to attempt to re-align with inner bodhi. This is a hurdle you must recognise.

paperflower SG

so... what is compassion, loving kindness in emptiness? and what is the value of awareness in this application?

what is the difference between void and emptiness on the sheer line apart? is it possible for one to fall over to either side?

what is "complete in emptiness"?

earthling82 SG

Compassion and Emptiness are 2 sides of the same coin. That coin is known as Buddha-nature in Buddhism.

Awareness brings about awareness of this.

When ppl meditate on Emptiness they sometimes fall into delusion when they only see the "Empty" aspect of Emptiness. This supposed Emptiness also has other properties. Emptiness is also all-encompassing. For example when you pour water into a space in a cup, this space will not reject the water. At the same time this space is not diminished.

The property of encompassing whatever you encounter is none-other than Compassion. When you develope metta, arent you developing a capacity of acceptance for yourself, ppl around you, situations? Broaden this and encompass the whole universe

Your Buddha nature is also the Nature of Emptiness. True emptiness is not completely empty. You still need awareness to realise this. -- Surangama Sutta.

Your Buddha Nature is wholesome in itself. Words like Emptiness, Compassion are its properties, not itself entirely. This way you won't be confused.

In Theravada Buddhism, sometimes Vipasanna and Metta Bhavana are taught seperately. This can be a problem if you dun understand.

paperflower SG

indeed, the profound meaning of emptiness is truly deep.

the buddha said: "sustaining a loving heart, even for the duration of a finger snap, makes one a truly spiritual being."

earthling82 SG

Yes. A loving heart, kindness and friendship is what substains our lives and our well-being on earth Smile

No love is higher than self-less-ness.

paperflower SG

surely.... Smile

the connection with everything and every being in non-self is such a great love and compassion indescribable infinity of great noble spirituality than a complete empty self-less-ness.

An Eternal Now SG

If one sees thoughts as empty as in absence or a void, then it is false emptiness.

Thoughts are just conditioned arising - one thought arise is Yuan Qi, and conditions the other thought to arise and is constantly changing - ungraspable. These are conditioned dharma and empty of inherent existence.

Treat thoughts like heart beat, walking, and breathing. For example when you walk, you do not keep thinking "I want to walk.. i want to walk..." it is the most natural thing. There is no thoughts, and no self walking. Smile

Similarly thoughts are just conditioned phenomena, do not arise another mind on top of it, just like your heartbeat. Do not make it an imputed reality out of Fa (dharma/phenomena).

When we do not impute reality, it is mere Pure Awareness, neither is there seperation of inner and outer.

It is every time when a condition and cause arise, contact is made, perception arise almost immediately, that is the problem. Therefore the immediate Buddha Nature is not known.

Think about it - did you first HEAR the sound, or KNOW the sound?

Isis SG

Hi guys thank.. i learn from all ur comments...

i m just wondering.. Do thoughts arise from desire?

An Eternal Now SG

From Ignorance... thoughts go along with the attachment of the "I".

An Eternal Now SG

http://www.dhammadana.org/en/dhamma/paticca_samuppada.htm

The twelve links of interdependent origination

* Dependent on ignorance (avijjá) mental formations...
* ... arise.
* From mental formations (saýkhárá), rebirth consciousness arises.
* Consciousness (viññáa) gives rise to mental and physical phenomena.
* From mental and physical phenomena (náma rúpa), the spheres of the six senses arise.
* From the spheres of the six senses (sa¦áyatana), contact arises.
* Contact (phassa) causes sensation.
* Sensation (vedaná) leads to craving.
* From craving (tahá), attachment results.
* Attachment (upádána) produces becoming.
* From becoming (bhava) birth arises.
* Finally, birth (játi) leads to decay (jará), death (maraaµ), grief (soka), lamentation (parideva), pain (dukkha), sorrow (domanassa), despair (upáyása).