Question about 6 realms

burntan SG

In Buddhism, the 6 realms is it exist in our mind only?

An Eternal Now SG

Kong Ji Shi She, She Ji Shi Kong.

"there is no spoone." - the matricks Mr. Green

Everything is empty, samsara is empty, sufferings are empty, 6 realms are all empty.

Otherwise... cultivate hard, then you can see for yourself. That's better than pondering upon this in doubt.

An Eternal Now SG

extract from... Matrix: Reloaded

Everything comes in the manifestation of the mind.

burntan SG

So, is that mean it is only exist in our mind?

Suicine SG

everything (even your house, your mom etc) exists becos of our own minds. without the mind there is nothing!

burntan SG

If it is just some imaginating things, then why Buddha want to pass down this knowledge of 6 realms? What is the benefit of knowing it? Why it need to be so specific?

An Eternal Now SG

WHAT IS ***NOT*** THE EMPTINESS?
Most of us have two kinds of misunderstandings about emptiness, First kind: we acknowledge that emptiness is Voidness of absence, Second kind: we acknowledge that emptiness is Voidness of annihilation.

WHAT is Voidness of absence?
For example, somebody says Hi, look! That house is empty, or That is a empty house, the meaning of his words, is that nothing is in the house or nobody is living in the house, does not mean the house is not existent. When we say That bookshelf is empty, it dose not mean the bookshelf itself is not existent, the only meaning of those words is that nothing is on the bookshelf. This is called Voidness of absence. This is not the emptiness of Mahayanas doctrine.

Voidness of absence, is a erroneous and false emptiness, does not mean the emptiness of the thing itself. The religious world and the philosophical history are holding the positive way of looking at the Voidness of absence very popularly. In India, the Sankara of Advaita-Vedanta is a good sample of Vodiness of absence.

When we speak of emptiness, we are talking about emptiness of inherent existence, not Nihilism. Why are there so many things in the world? Because your mind seperates things, creates identities, creates a notion of Self, and varying concepts and perceptions. Everything originates from Interdependance, so where is the "self"? Attachment to the world causes illusions, because you mistake your own conceptual thinking as the ultimate reality.

I feel there is really nothing to discuss about emptiness...

To Vimalakirti and the Mahayanists, emptiness is absolute. Even though it cannot be discussed absolutely, it exists as such. Vimalakirti uses enigmatic phrases to show, not only that the words of Manjushri are empty, but that his own are, as well.

Start practicing and you will naturally realise the truth.

shade343 SG

He wanted us to realize the truth that all things are transient and only Nirvana is permanent

An Eternal Now SG

Shin Shau's verses:

Our body is the Bodhi tree,
And our mind is like a bright mirror with stand,
Diligently we wipe them all the time,
And let no dust alight.

Hui Neng's verses:

There is no Bodhi Tree (Pu Ti Ben Wu Shu)
Nor the stand of a bright mirror, (Ming Jing Ji Fei Tai)
Since all is void, (Ben Lai Wu Yi Wu)
Where can the dust alight? (He Chu Re Chen Ai)

Who is Shin Shau, and Who is Hui Neng?

Shin Shau was the head disciple under the master, who was then the 5th Zen Partriach in China. Everyone expected Shin Shau to become the 6th Zen Partriach, but he did not become the partriach.

The 5th Zen Partriach was finding someone to take over him to continue the Zen Partriach lineage... and to do so, he has to find an enlightened person, one who has Ming Xin Jian Xing.

Hung Jen assembled all his disciples and said,"Go and seek for Prajna in your own mind and write me a stanza (gatha) about it. The one who understands the reality of Buddhist nature will be the Sixth Patriarch."

However, When the 5th Partriach received Shin Shau's stanzas, he knew that Shin Shau has not awakened to the ultimate truth. He has not Jian Xing, seen his own Buddha Nature.

Hui-Neng however... was able to grasp the essence of Buddha Nature, and spoke of the Buddha-nature as empty, because he had truly seen it. He then became the 6th Zen Partriach.

Everyone of us have a full and complete Buddha-Nature, no matter how evil or good a person is. We are able to become Buddhas ourselves.

How wonderful, how surprising! All the beings are already endowed with the wisdom of the Buddha! They have already all Buddha-qualities! How mysterious is it! - The Buddha

An Eternal Now SG

Both Shin Shau and Hui Neng's verses are valid.

But Hui Neng is speaking from the perspective of the ultimate reality, and since the master wants someone enlightened to take over him, he could not have taken Shin Shau.

Shin Shau's verses are speaking from the perspective of cultivation. Our Buddha-Nature is originally pure, but illusions always exists. We wipe the mirror of its dust, and the Buddha-Nature shows itself.

bohiruci SG

burn ,this is an answer to xuan xiu who is the lead monk under the fifth patriach hong ren who claim there is a bohi tree , and our mind is like a mirror
it means from huineng ,sixth patriach, there is no tree , and where is there the mirror, bodhi nature is clear and unobscured ,we are just deluded thats all

burntan SG

So, what is the conclusion? 6 realms really exist or not?

Or it is really exist, but we shouldn't put it in our mind for it?

Why suddenly talk about emptiness?

erijazz SG

Think it is a little too fast to talk about emptiness to ppl who just get to know about buddhism instead of zen...

We are currently living within the 6 realm, everything or deeds we do today or even the state of mind we are in, contribute to what we encounter to the future or even reincarnation to our next life... the only to get out of the 6 realm is to follow the way that is taught by buddha to attain emptiness and to achieve 'nothing'... kind of difficult to explain when put into words... but thats what zen is all about...

And my poor command of english contribute to the confusion as well Laughing

An Eternal Now SG

Sorry for the confusion.

If I say Yes, some people may have doubts, so it is better left for them to practice. If I say No, then I am going against the Buddhist sutras.

So, I would rather say... practice on your own and see for yourself. When you realise the ultimate truth, everything is also "empty". Once you are enlightened, you will know.

If you cultivate well... you can attain the deva-eye, arhat eye, bodhisattva eye, or even the buddha eye. There are many people who attained Jhanas and therefore be able to see the different realms...

http://www.chan1.org/ddp/channews/10-1987.html

I think... you read the whole website, then you'll understand what I said.

An Eternal Now SG

I'm not going to speak about the arhat eye or the bodhisattva eye. I will speak directly about the Buddha eye. It is really quite simple. The Buddha sees everything as emptiness. This does not mean that he sees nothing when he looks at something or someone. It means that he sees the empty nature of the things he sees. Levels below the Buddha can see emptiness also, but emptiness is experienced like air in a box. It takes the shape of the container. There is still separateness. For the Buddha, according to this analogy, air is everywhere, and it is not segmented. Even the bodhisattva, who has the dharma eye, does not see in this way. Only when you reach Buddhahood, do you see with unobstructed limitlessness.

An Eternal Now SG

Have you ever seen a ghost or a god? Normally people can't see things that are too far, near, big, or small. But some people borrow the power of a ghost or other spiritual being, and gain spiritual vision. There are also cases of heavenly beings who are born into the human realm, who still retain some ability to see ghosts and spirits in the realms below. They can no longer see into the heavenly realm, nor can they see ghosts and spirits in the human realm.

I had a student who came here for a beginner's class. She claimed to have some psychic power. She said that when she was well-concentrated, she could see into people's past, but I had my doubts. I asked her if she could see into my past. I have heavy karmic obstructions, which have their root in past lives, but still she could see nothing of my past. Why? People are not always reborn into the human realm. They might be born into a distant world, and ordinary psychic power would be too limited to see that far. It would be similar to a person who commits a crime in Taiwan and moves to New York. The New York police would have no record of the crime.

The ghostly or deva eye stands at a level between the fleshy and heavenly eyes. This phenomenon occurs when a spiritual being uses the eye of a human being as a medium. People who have experienced this believe that they have been endowed with great spiritual powers, but it is really the power of the spiritual being at work. There is a book about a spirit called Seth who used a woman's body to talk to people in this world. He could only talk through her.

I have a Dharma brother who has such powers. He was once sitting on a train, and suddenly he saw all the people sitting around him as pigs and dogs and other animals. He could see the changes that these people went through in various past lives, but he could see no further. This is not really his power, but that of a spiritual being working through him. I asked him if he could see such things with his eyes closed, and he answered no, but there are people who have such powers.

In the sutra Buddha talks about a disciple, Anirudha. He is a good example of someone who developed the heavenly eye. He practiced very hard. He sat for days with his eyes open, and he never slept. Eventually, he went blind from keeping his eyes open. The Buddha went to visit him and told him not to worry. He said that the fleshy eye is of little use anyway, and there are better eyes to acquire. The Buddha explained to Anirudha how to practice, and in a short time he had the heavenly eye. As he penetrated deeper into dhyana, his vision became truly vast.

Those who are born in the realm of desire with the heavenly eye, because of their previous good karma, are always born in heavenly realms. Those born as humans in the realm of form, must obtain the heavenly eye through meditation. Normally, human beings cannot see ghosts, and the ghosts that are here cannot see us. The more powerful beings in the heavenly realms can see us, but spiritual beings here cannot. They can sense our existence, but they can't tell exactly where we are. Only by borrowing an earthly eye can they see more accurately. An English psychologist who was able to leave his body reported seeing just this sort of thing; he saw ghosts and humans, but they could not see each other.

The heavenly eye can observe all manner of beings in the realm of form: animals, humans, ghosts, spirits, heavenly beings. This eye can see into the past and future for 500 to 1000 lives. But looking into the past and looking into the future are two distinct psychic powers. In the six heavenly realms, the lower realms cannot see into the realms above them. Why? Because the body becomes more and more subtle as you ascend into these realms. A being in the highest heavenly realm can see throughout his realm and all the realms below. Such a being can see us and know us as if we were specks in the palm of his hand.

Common people cannot really understand this heavenly eye. It has to be experienced. Sometimes someone in Canada might be able to see what's going on in the United States, or someone in United States can see things in Hong Kong. This is not the heavenly eye at all. It is still the ghost, or spiritual eye. The heavenly eye, within its realm, knows what is going on in all places at all times.