Gang-raped, yet woman gets 6 months' jail, 200 lashes

last SG · 2007-11-17T09:33:58+00:00

Oh the PC police is on the prowl. Ooo.. these crazy muuzlems, they're so deranged...Inferior culture and all.. booh hoo hoo. Objective analysis based on con...

frakfrakfrak SG

udontknowme: America now is a 3rd world country with nuclear bombs so its calling itself first world. I don't see how American style liberal democracy somehow upholds absolute universal values. If the Democratic party is supposed to be a guardian of liberal democratic values well hey, there goes the baby.

Fatum: Ok, not everything is relative. As I said before the severity of the judgement is an issue no doubt about that. But I think the article and its subsequent commentary were very shallow. The judge's decision must be premised on the fact that the woman was a prostitute because he decided to punish her as well. Also he is the most fit to make that reading because he is the most able imbedded authority and so we commentators should respect that characteristic of his person. I am not making a judgement, I am merely concuring with the judge's verdict. I am not concuring with his punishment.

frakfrakfrak SG

You dogs go think first before you growl.

udontknowme SG

im not saying that it's right. but neither will i say it's wrong. who are we to say what is fair or what is right? what are we basing it all on? and why do we see it as unfair? what have we been learning/studying/etc in singapore? what have we been exposed to? what are our laws here? we have we seen?
why do we consider it wrong that women in certain places have absolutely no right at all? why do we interfere? why do we impose what we think is right onto other people? why must we change another country's culture just because it is 'wrong' according to 'us'.

trust me, i hate it that things like this are going on. but if anything's going to change, i'm gonig to leave it to the people in that country to make the change. not let other people from other countries come in and 'mess things up' in order to try and 'fix' it.

frakfrakfrak SG

Lazerlordz: I am not concuring with the 200 lashes and what that entails. Btw, have you seen a woman hanged for drug offences? Now that’s a death penalty mind you. I see no cultural superiority, in this case. I do not agree on taking point samples and imposing claims of cultural superiority.

Fatum SG

where was it stated anywhere that the judge, or anyone else, other than yourself, that the woman was a prostitute ? ... was it your judgement or the judges ? ...

go read about the earlier thread i dug up ...

whether a woman flashes her boobs at you, or shows some ankle beneath her burqa, it's still not an invitation for you to force sex upon the woman, period ! ...

I don't know what your "concurring with the judge's verdict" means for you, if you're not making a judgement by saying that the judge was correct ...

run along and think now ...

Fatum SG

you still don't get it do you .... we're not talking about cultural superiority here ...

we are talking about absolute, universal values and ethics ! .... Rolling Eyes

AndrewPKYap SG

Woman gets ganged raped... judge punish all parties... prostitution in Saudi Arabia.... are all because of American culture???!!!! You have very good imagination... I can't keep up....

LazerLordz SG

To place my views in context, I am no keen supporter of the death penalty as well.

AndrewPKYap SG

hmmm is there such a thing as "absolute, universal values and ethics"?

Fatum SG

since when is rape not "wrong " .....

LazerLordz SG

You see, modernisation theory may not always work if there is little avenue for change internally should interested parties want to. It depends on the cost-benefit analysis here. The space for debate about such things in Saudi Arabia is not large enough for a gradual wriggling about with regards to these statutes.

Some things are inevitably universal, and a stand has to be made eventually.

Brings to mind "Responsibility to Protect" too. Though I would agree that while the world should lobby against such practices, their role should be limited to creating that lil space for domestic activists to work in, and not attempt to replace them.

udontknowme SG

it's something many people believe in/are trying to achieve...but really, for now, nope.....

LazerLordz SG

If you're from the Janjaweed and you're doing it to the Fur and Massalit people in Darfur apparently. Rolling Eyes

udontknowme SG

in certain parts of the northern part of canada... Laughing

i remember studying for a test last week and i was like... Shocked Shocked Shocked when i saw that some inuit men can just grab any woman they 'like' and erm...fark them...

and im sure in other parts of the world there are people like that too. in fact im quite sure there is at least one group where they women can choose which men they wanna have sex with....(but maybe this one is not 'rape')

Fatum SG

an orgy is not a rape my dear ....

Fatum SG

for someone who's a vocal activist about certain issues such as the death penalty and section 377A ... I think you're contradicting yourself bro ...

especially that last bit about domestic activists and not attempting to replace them, and " modernisation theory may not always work if there is little avenue for change internally should interested parties want to."

I do remember you saying something about the community of nations and responsibilities and all that ... so what gives ? ... so it's alright to agitate to for democracy and to end the death penalty and decriminalize gay sex via international pressure but not ..... this ? ...

or is this "relative" also ? ..

frakfrakfrak SG

Fatum: This is called analysis. The judge concluded she was guilty, hence the punishment. I defer to his authority on this matter because he is an embedded scholar of law. On closer analysis, I concur that I was wrong in stating that he concluded she was a prostitute. That was how I read his verdict. It may likely be that his verdict was based on the crime of "close proximity with non-close male relations", which I did not consider a crime on first reading. I concur with this verdict because events upheld the premise the law.

Fatum SG

so now you're thinking eh ? ....

let's put it this way, whether a woman flashes her boobs at you from her spaghetti top, or flash you some ankel beneath her burqa, it is still WRONG to force yourself upon her, period ! ...

for you to concur with this sort of verdict, I loathe to imagine how you'd treat your wifey/girlfriend ....

AndrewPKYap SG

Oh I see... you are referring to "rape" and not a general ""absolute, universal values and ethics"

AndrewPKYap SG

what about rape, plunder and burn as a war “tactic”?

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