how do they know what exactly you're downloading?

last SG · 2008-02-15T15:16:25+00:00

I think hammer can destroy, provided you hammer into the disk, and break it into 100 fragments. They will need to jigsaw puzzle everything before being able...

itzjuzme SG

How does your ISP know exactly what you're downloading? They can track incoming and outgoing traffic to IPs, and amount on data you're down and uploading, but how do they know what exactly you are downloading? Like from torrents all u have is the tracker ID, how they know whether it's anime or not?

Also, how are they catching ppl and based on what? would be really funny if they charge you for downloading 1 terabyte worth of porn

Jamie Zawinski SG

u mean u tot u could be anonymous?

dun be naive leh

come, drink some evian, wahahaha

abao SG

packet sniffer,tcp request, udp request, http requests, ftp respests... all can be tracked as long as u have the necessary program.

Only thing is that the ISP usually dont track unless they have a very good reason to cos tracking is tedious and time consuming. even if its logged in their db it still means they have to retrieve them. corporate backends are usually less glamourous and intuitive to use than their client-side cousins.

encryption just makes it a little bit harder.

and torrents are not even using any form of encryption. they announce themselves to the seeds and peers throughout the peer list. go read the api/ wiki yourself.

itzjuzme SG

so those stupid ppl that got caught in sg and those hipfriends bullshit adverts on tv.. why were they picked to get charged? downloading/doing what would increase your chance of getting caught? since there are at least 1million people in sg downloading stuff illegally everyday/

ndmmxiaomayi SG

Unless you own your own routers and DNS servers, of course it can be tracked.

Routers - not your home routers.

Before you are able to surf, you need to connect to your ISP. Through your ISP, you get on the Net.

When you connect and disconnect, there's always a log. For those own a router, you can quite easily tell it.

Own home network IP address - 192.168.x.x (where x is anything between 1 and 254)

Public IP address - 121.x.x.x (Singnet)

116.x.x.x (Singnet)

220.255.x.x (Singnet)

202.x.x.x (Starhub)

The other ISP ranges I'm not so sure. That's how they track down. All they need is your ISP cooperation. That's why a lot of people are not happy when ODEX could get ISP logs. And... encryption doesn't help. Your first step to the Net is your ISP. You can't possibly encrypt this part. Unless you own your own ISP. That, you gotta ask APNIC. The chance of APNIC granting you this request is near zero, from experience.

After your ISP, you can do anything want to hide your identity. Proxy, encryption, IP address changers, MAC address changers, whatever to hide yourself.

Those people that were charged - is to send a stern warning to all illegal downloaders. Don't think because our telecommunications indicates that all ISPs must do something to protect your privacy, the laws can't harm you. There's an extra line which states with a court order, ISPs will have to release details. However that line is going to be abused, is not up to us discuss. If you intend to find out, you can read the whole ODEX thread.

Downloading illegal stuffs won't increase your chance of being caught. But rather, it depends on two factors.

1. Amount

2. Uploads

The more you download, the higher chance you expose yourself for getting caught. Coupled with a fixed price for unlimited usage, the chances of you leaving a computer on to download stuffs 24/7 isn't very slim.

Plus, some people tend to download a lot at one go. A few movies, a few albums in less than one day. What ya think?

Uploads

With P2P technology, to get good download speeds, you have to learn to share. Uploading is P2P way of sharing. More downloads via P2P, more uploads.

How are people caught

The most common way I've heard of is through tip offs. But I believe this is a lie. Simply because the tip off is actually supplied by the people who wants these people to be caught (copyright association such as RIAS)

Another way is through tracking. Various companies have developed several ways to catch downloaders, in particular P2P downloaders.

How these programs work, you need an understanding of how P2P works. And there's a few kind of P2P networks, which doesn't make it easy.

Torrents is probably the easiest, due to trackers and seeders.

But Gnutella, eDonkey, etc use another type. Gnutella has a tree, leaves and sub leaves.

Another method is through fake torrents. But this is easily fooled since P2P clients these days are able to tell if a torrent is real or fake.

The last method that I know of is what some may term as espionage. This is particularly for private trackers.

Skilled people are sent to sign up (if available) or share files with the P2P downloaders. This type of activity typically goes on for months or years before authorities finally make a kill.

Based on what? Simple. Your IP address and other details through sniffers. As long as they are in the P2P network, that is. The last method isn't common, but is one of the most successful one. Sniffers are able to tell a lot of details just based on the headers alone. IP address is pretty reliable as most don't connect via any secure protocol, and as far as I know, not many P2P clients offer any secure connection of any sort.

Masturbationaddiction SG

then whats the best way for not being caught? after downloading, they cancel the uploads?

then if you've downloaded before and want to "quit", how to? just delete all the files ah? o.o

StarPuppy SG

then whats the best way for not being caught? after downloading, they cancel the uploads?

then if you've downloaded before and want to "quit", how to? just delete all the files ah? o.o

There is no way, they got ur logs on what you seen, downloaded, where u went

ndmmxiaomayi SG

then whats the best way for not being caught? after downloading, they cancel the uploads?

then if you've downloaded before and want to "quit", how to? just delete all the files ah? o.o

The best way of not being caught is not to do illegal downloads in the first place.

Unfortunately, deleted files can be recover. At least according to US. Files need to be overwritten at least 100 times before technology fails to recover them. The ultimate way is to destroy the hard disk using magnets.

Pouring acid, hammering it to pieces don't help.

abao SG

The best way of not being caught is not to do illegal downloads in the first place.

Pouring acid, hammering it to pieces don't help.

According to the US DOD, 3-7 times would be adequate leh. Though usually for sensitive stufff I would recommend Gutmann's 35 times secure deletion

LatecomerX SG

There is no way, they got ur logs on what you seen, downloaded, where u went

Not really. You can always connect to a VPN or a SOCKS server to act as a proxy for data transfer via a secure, encrypted connection and the most they could do is to log the gibberish chunks of data without the slightest hint of what you are sending or receiving, since data is encrypted from the point it leaves your computer when it is sent, until it reaches the other end, and vice versa. Not even an ISP can know what you are doing, unless you are some big-name spy from Russia and the ISP you are on have set up some super-duper-computer to brute-force decrypt the encrypted data within your internet connection. Anyway, here's one of the many VPN services available out there.

https://www.relakks.com/faq/security/

Phaze SG

If you are using bittorrent, your ISP doesn't know exactly what you are downloading. Your ISP doesn't really care what you are downloading as much as they care that you are utilizing large amounts of bandwidth.

ISPs only 'know' what you are downloading when they receive a complaint. The evidence is usually gathered by third parties hired by content providers. They bascially just join the torrent and just capture the IP addresses of all the people downloading.

This is why no one has received a letter for downloading porn. The porn industry hasn't done anything to address P2P. They are very concerned but at the same time, they don't want to draw too much attention to their industry so they are still carefully weighing their options.

BangHong SG

they got a range of ip address and what you download...... according to odex matter

ndmmxiaomayi SG

According to the US DOD, 3-7 times would be adequate leh. Though usually for sensitive stufff I would recommend Gutmann's 35 times secure deletion

That's for deterring normal users from recovering any deleted stuffs. And it's sufficient enough.

If you got someone who would pay thousands and thousands just to recover your data, the stats from DOD is wrong. In fact, it has updated. From previously 40++ times to now 100++ times.

ndmmxiaomayi SG

they got a range of ip address and what you download...... according to odex matter

Range of IP address is public. ODEX don't have to research much. What they need to know is a solid proof of what you've downloaded.

Fatum SG

they can sniff out the incoming TCP packet headers and see what protocol you're using from the port numbers ... things like bittorrent clients use fixed port numbers .... so they know pretty well what you're up to .... sort of ....

ndmmxiaomayi SG

Nowadays P2P clients use random ports... unless your P2P client damn old. LOL

LatecomerX SG

Nowadays P2P clients use random ports... unless your P2P client damn old. LOL

I use a fixed port number of 45678.

ndmmxiaomayi SG

LOL

freedom4ever SG

The best way of not being caught is not to do illegal downloads in the first place.

Pouring acid, hammering it to pieces don't help.

what about scratching it using some sharp object? if doesnt help, can burn?

ndmmxiaomayi SG

what about scratching it using some sharp object? if doesnt help, can burn?

Scratching with sharp object - no. Last I've read, they are able to recover a hard disk that's been poured with acid and hammered to pieces.

Burning - perhaps. But... I think you need a better fire.