Economics

last SG · 2009-09-24T00:26:37+00:00

A doctor can take up a mop and start cleaning straight away. A cleaner needs to study medicine for a couple of years, understand what the hell she is studyin...

Rooney9 SG

besides NUS, there are also DUKE-NUS located at SGH that churn out medical students, about 50 of them every year. NUS churn out about 200 plus medical students into the profession every year.

Lee012lee SG

an undergrad at NUS Yong Loo Lin School of Medicine, study 5 years to obtain their MBBS and 1 year of Housemanship. after that they need to serve 5-6 years of bond as their studies are heavily subsidized by the government. they are being rotated to different hospitals every 6 months in different departments as a medical officer. if they want to specialise, they need to go into 3 years of BST and 2 years of AST before becoming a specialist. There are 3 kinds of specialists, associate consultant, consultant, senior consultant. AC is sort of a newbie consultant. to progress into a consultant, you need a few years of experience of being an AC first. to be a senior consultant, you need at least 5 years of experience being a consultant.

How long does it take a doctor to be an assistant professor, associate professor and clinical professor ?

I understand that an associate consultant doctor can start to see private patients in a government hospital.

May I know who much does a consultant doctor earn from private patients as private patients are usually asked to go for many tests ?

Example

A MRI test costs $2300 for a private patient. How much does the consultant doctor earn from the MRI Test ?

If possible, can you share with us how are doctors being renumerated in a hospital ?

Thanks.

Rooney9 SG

How long does it take a doctor to be an assistant professor, associate professor and clinical professor ?

I understand that an associate consultant doctor can start to see private patients in a government hospital.

May I know who much does a consultant doctor earn from private patients as private patients are usually asked to go for many tests ?

Example

A MRI test costs $2300 for a private patient. How much does the consultant doctor earn from the MRI Test ?

If possible, can you share with us how are doctors being renumerated in a hospital ?

Thanks.

I can tell you a AST (advanced specialist trainee) pay is almost 7k. a HOD pay in a public hospital is 25k. so you can deduce how much pay is AC, consultant and senior consultant. by the way, a senior consultant is usually the HOD of a public hospital. as for professorship, you need to teach at NUS, sort of a title in the teaching profession. most are associate professors in public hospitals. those doctors who are senior in the profession and teaching for decades, are full professors. those doctors and professors teaching at NUS, are either senior consultants, associate or professors. our medical education are modelled after UK, but MOH has decided to switch it to the american model, ACGME and residency programmes.

Rooney9 SG

most of the specialists are visiting consultants to other public and private hospitals. they only go there maybe once a week there. other that that, they stay at their own hospitals tending to their clinics, teaching and doing administrative work in the department. other times, those senior doctors head a committee in their hospital, such as the onset swine flu. MOH also appoint them to head STC(specialist training committee) taking in BST and AST. this model is going to switch to the american model of ACGME in future.

Rooney9 SG

for BST to proceed to AST, you need to pass FRCS or MRCP, depending on which specialisation you are. there are about 35 specialisations in the field of medicine in Singapore, although sports medicine is going to be a specialist in its own right in future, as is family medicine.

just to give you a few specialisations in medicine in singapore

1) diagnostic radiology

2) nuclear medicine

3) orthorhinolarygngology (ENT - Ear Nose Throat for short)

4) psychiatry

5) emergency medicine

6) pathology

7) general surgery

8) orthopaedic surgery

Rooney9 SG

How long does it take a doctor to be an assistant professor, associate professor and clinical professor ?

I understand that an associate consultant doctor can start to see private patients in a government hospital.

May I know who much does a consultant doctor earn from private patients as private patients are usually asked to go for many tests ?

Example

A MRI test costs $2300 for a private patient. How much does the consultant doctor earn from the MRI Test ?

If possible, can you share with us how are doctors being renumerated in a hospital ?

Thanks.

there are quite number of specialists from public hospitals going into the private sector outside, opening their own clinics and becoming their own boss. its more lucrative than earning a fixed salary in public hospitals. after hearing all these, do you wish to be a doctor in future? there is a saying, to be a doctor is a calling. if you are enticed by the money, then perhaps doctor is not the right profession for you. you should be motivated to be a doctor to treat patients.

Lee012lee SG

Thanks for the information.

I understand a consultant doctor not only earns a fixed salary but the consultant doctor also earns from seeing the private patients in a hospital. Indeed, some senior consultant doctors have set aside one day to see private patients only as seeing the private patients can bring them income more than their fixed salary.

Is it true that the consultant doctor earns from the tests done by the private patients eg a MRI test costs $2300 for a private patient and the consultant doctor will earn say 1/4 of $2300 = $575 ? While the same consultant doctor earns nothing from the tests done by the subsidised patients ?

Thanks.

Rooney9 SG

there are alot of things to learn as a trainee. medical officers are posted to different dept once every 6 months. although they are not supposed to do consultations or do surgery, they help the senior consultants in the department doing general medicine work. also they need to attend a lecture once a week for about 3 hours, not to mention of the times they attend conferences either in singapore or overseas. there are also think medical books to read to improve their knowledge. most of the time, the senior consultants in the dept are tasked teaching these trainee doctors, such as when doing surgery in operating theatre or doing the ward rounds in the morning.

Rooney9 SG

Thanks for the information.

Thanks.

ya they also earned extra perks such as doing surgery in OT, or performing minor surgery. how much they earn in this I am not sure. for subsidised patient referred by polyclinics, they also earned a little amount, not much, but how much percentage I am not sure.

Lee012lee SG

Can you elaborate further on the new american model, ACGME and residency programmes that is going to be adopted in the hospitals ?

Thanks.

Rooney9 SG

you know doctors worked in shifts at hospitals?

I know their shift allowance is 1k, besides their basic pay.

Rooney9 SG

you can go to ACGME website to read their information. its too detailed explaning to you here and you may get confused.

actually the residency programme is not much different from BST and AST, but there are some differences.

BST and AST are taken care by the STC, but residency programme are the baby of the institution hospitals. STC recruit, teach and then decide whether they can become specialist all in one body, whereas ACGME have separate bodies within the institution, like recruiting, examning, teaching and then deciding if they can be specialist so that there is avoidance of conflict of interests.

Rooney9 SG

Can you elaborate further on the new american model, ACGME and residency programmes that is going to be adopted in the hospitals ?

Thanks.

so are you considering to be a doctor in future?

Lee012lee SG

What will be repercussions if a consultant surgeon makes a mistake in an operation if the patient does not sue the surgeon ie could the other existing patients or future patients know about these failures ?

Are there some records kept by the hospitals for these failures and affects the consultant surgeon if he or she moves to another hospital within the country or to another country ?

Thanks.

Lee012lee SG

so are you considering to be a doctor in future?

I am too old to dream to be a doctor.

I have already finished my schooling days years ago.

My niece is interested to become a doctor and Rooney9 you seem to know a lot about the training to be the doctor and so I am asking the information for her.

Rooney9, are you currently training to be a medical doctor or you are already a medical doctor and on Basic Specialty Training or Advanced Specialty Training ?

Thanks.

Rooney9 SG

Are there some records kept by the hospitals for these failures and affects the consultant surgeon if he or she moves to another hospital within the country or to another country ?

Thanks.

well if the patient does not complain against the surgeon, his/her family will. if they dun, the HOD will take up the case. if the HOD is the senior consultant, maybe his boss like the CEO may like to know. Hospitals have a committee to look into these things. last of all, SMC is the regulating body whereby doctors need to renew their license once every 2 years. the disciplinary committee at SMC will look into this and see what type of discipline measures against the surgeon. worst case scenario is non renewal of his/her license or immediate suspension of the surgeon license. there will be records kept on this, dun worry at hospitals and at SMC. if the surgeon moved to other countries and the hiring hospital wants to do a reference check, they can enquire from the hospital or SMC. but as medical field is quite a small world in this globalised world, some doctors from other countries may ask their counterparts in Singapore for reference check thru word of mouth.

Rooney9 SG

I am too old to dream to be a doctor.

I have already finished my schooling days years ago.

My niece is interested to become a doctor and Rooney9 you seem to know a lot about the training to be the doctor and so I am asking the information for her.

Rooney9, are you currently training to be a medical doctor or you are already a medical doctor and on Basic Specialty Training or Advanced Specialty Training ?

Thanks.

you watch pitch adams the movie? its a real life story on adams, he himself studied medicine quite late at his age. even if you are in your late 30s, its still quite ok to study medicine, as its only 5 years of study for a basic medical degree. I know of a PR doctor who applied to be a BST in his 40s, as he was in a western country after finishing his medical degree. look at what age he will be when he is AC after finishing his AST.

no I am not medically trained. I happened to work with doctors previously. doctors are clever people, who are articulate and intelligent. HODs are quite demanding doctors. thats how they become HOD isnt it, besides being capable, they also want the best.

your niece wants to be a doc? good on her. but ask her what is her motive to want to be a doc first. most doctors I know will say its their calling, they are not motivated by the money or prestige. anyway there is a difference doctors trained in Singapore and foreign doctors trained overseas. NUS recently emphasised on the ethics and compared to foreign doctors, ethics is the least emphasised at NUS due to a recent survey among doctors conducted by 2 esteem doctors in the field. the survey showed that foreign doctors are trained well in ethics compared to our local doctors.

foreign doctors are of the impression that when doctors visited the patients to treat them, they tend to focus on the disease or sickness, without even bothering greeting or acknowleding the patient when doing ward rounds. foreign doctors are taught in their medical schools that you should focus on the patient, not the diseases.

Rooney9 SG

most doctors start work at 7.30am. some started even earlier. first they do ward rounds with the trainees. after that, they go to their clinic at 8.30am. they do not have patients to see everyday. some have clinic on 2-3 days a week. besides clinic work, they are visiting consultants on private and public hospitals probably once a week. they also spend their time doing admin work in their dept, like corresponding by e-mail, planning and doing scheduling. they are also supposed to teach the trainee in their dept. every medical officer are tagged to a consultant to be their supervisor. every 6 months, they are supposed to do a supervisor report on them. if any trainee who slacked or got attitude problem, their supervisor will warn them either verbally or reflect in the supervisor's report. if the trainee doesnt improve, then its up to the STC to decide whether to kick out the trainee from training. I know one trainee who has completed his/her BST, but cos of attitude problem despite numerous warnings, he/she does not progress to AST. so its as good as kicking him/her out from the traineeship.

Rooney9 SG

oh earlier I mentioned on FRCR and MRCP isnt it. these are intermediate exams before progression to AST. besides FRCR or MRCP depending on the specialisation, some specialisation require passing of MMed, ie Masters of Medicine awarded by NUS. if you pass MMed, then you progress to AST. FRCR and MRCP are internationally recognised qualifications, whereas MMed is recognised in Singapore only, but most trainees usually take both of the exams. if they want to take FRCR, they take it in UK as it is a UK exam. heard of royal colleges of Edinburgh?

Rooney9 SG

medicine is not easy to study. once you are a doctor, its a demanding job as it involved very long hours.consultants do not need to do shifts as their clinics are office hours, but medical officers and trainees need to do shift work in hospitals.

when studying medicine, you need to remember, memorise the names of the diseases and the medications, mostly in latin. I saw those latin names I want to faint already lol, let alone remember and memorise them. besides medicine and diseases, also need to study body, and doing surgery. MBBS - Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery, like a double degree of sorts. MBBS is a basic medical degree whereby if you do not intend to specialise, you can be a medical officer in hospitals or work in raffles clinic as a GP or you open your own GP business. GP is good for treating common ailments likd cough, common flu, gastric and things like that. for persistent cough after seeing GP many times, you need to see ENT specialist, as the cough is linked to your nose, as you may have existing nasal problems you may not know. they will use a scope to go into your nose to see what the problem is, and GP cant do that as they do not have the equipment to do so. its not cheap doing the scope in your nose. its better to go polyclinic to get referral letter and go to specialist clinic in public hospitals subsidised. instead of paying 300 plus if you go to a private specialist, you pay around 100 plus subsidised and pay via your medisave account.

« Previous Page Next Page »