At his home in Milan, Clarence Seedorf's personal
physio is working overtime on the AC Milan player's hip. It is late
and the physio has already done several sessions, but Milan host
Manchester United in the Champions League on Tuesday and
Seedorf is desperate to be fit in time. "If my voice suddenly
changes, you will know why," he says, as his physio doggedly kneads
away.
Seedorf, 33, one of the most decorated players in the modern
game, is still as hungry as ever to achieve more. The only player
to have won the Champions League with three different clubs –
Ajax in 1995, Real Madrid in 1998, and twice with
Milan in 2003 and 2007 – he has a career total of 17 club trophies
across three European leagues. The Dutchman has played under some
of the greatest managers in the game, Fabio Capello, Sven-Goran
Eriksson, Carlo Ancelotti, Guus Hiddink, Marcello Lippi, and Louis
van Gaal among them, and earned 87 caps for the national side.
That desire stems in part, he says, from his parents –
Surinamese immigrants who instilled a strong work ethic in their
son as they struggled to forge a new life in the Netherlands.
Extended family crammed into the modest family home, "everyone
trying to find a better life", he says.
At 14 years old, progressing through the ranks at Ajax, that
instinct was strong in Seedorf and he was already insanely
competitive. "I was already dreaming about winning the Champions
League three times," he says. "My idol, Frank Rijkaard [whom
Seedorf also played for during the former Barcelona coach's brief
tenure as Holland manager], had won it twice at that stage and so I
wanted to win one more than him." He laughs at the memory, but that
desire to always have "one more" has not changed in him, even after
all his successes.
"When you have ambition then it's never enough to win," he says.
"If I was happy with three trophies, then suddenly I had to have
four. If I was happy with four then I had to have five. A couple of
months [to enjoy it], then when you start again the next season all
you can think about it is wanting to do it again."
Which is why Seedorf is so keen to be fit to take his place in
midfield for Tuesday's game against Manchester United, a team who
hold special memories for him. Milan beat United 3-0 in the second
leg of the 2007 semi-final and that night, he says, remains the
best moment of his career. Seedorf's performance drew great praise
from Wayne Rooney, who told the Italian press that Seedorf was the
best footballer he had ever played against.
"We played an incredible game," says Seedorf, smiling at the
memory. "Everything about it was fantastic. We began one goal down
on aggregate, and it felt like everything was against us." Milan
had started that season with a 15-point penalty for their part in
the calciopoli scandal. "At the start of that season we
could not have imagined winning any trophies. But the team just
came together in a way that was really special. We beat Bayern
Munich, then Manchester United, and then Liverpool – after losing
to them in the [2005] final. It was an incredible explosion of
emotions. And it was justice through sport. They wanted to take
away our possibility to play in the Champions League when we had
done nothing to deserve that, and we won it back."
Seedorf, prodigiously talented, enjoyed success from a young
age. At 15 years old his parents turned down an offer from Real
Madrid, and aged 16 years and 211 days he made his debut for Ajax,
becoming their youngest ever player.
Silverware has been plentiful, but some question whether
Seedorf's personality has, at times, caused him undue problems.
Highly articulate – he is studying for a masters degree in business
– Seedorf is refreshingly expressive and opinionated – but in
football terms that means outspoken. Unprompted, he tells a story
about being racially abused last year. It is the kind of incident
that would give most footballers sleepless nights as they try to
decide whether to speak out or not, but Seedorf is totally unfazed.
"After the game I wanted to make an official statement," he says,
"not to cause a problem but because I wanted to make the point that
if players treat each other like this what message do we send to
the outside world?"
In the end he felt the Catania player learned a far more
personal lesson, as his wife and kids approached Seedorf for
autographs and photos after the game. "You can imagine how
embarrassing it was for him," he says, taking care to describe the
scene. "I didn't say anything, I just turned to him and gave him my
hand. The moment was incredible."
Seedorf is deeply spiritual, and does not touch alcohol or
coffee. He describes himself as a "volcano" off the pitch, dividing
his time between his sports-business company, which manages the
Serie C club Monza, and his humanitarian commitments. His
charity, Champions for Children, has pioneered an educational
playground model for use in developing countries around the world,
and his work has brought him into contact with Nelson Mandela,
Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Kofi Annan.
For his former club psychologist at Milan, Bruno de Michelis –
now at Chelsea – Seedorf is a fascinating case. De Michelis
describes him as closer to the personality type of a coach than a
footballer. "He talked 10% like a player, 70% like a coach, and 20%
like a general manager," he says, "I've never seen such a strong
personality."
When Seedorf's biographer approached De Michelis for further
insight, the psychologist explained that in football if the manager
tells the players to defecate on the pitch, the players would do so
without question. "But Seedorf would say: 'Certainly, mister, but
what colour should our shit be?"'
His readiness to speak his mind has not been welcomed by
everyone. During Euro 2000 a Dutch public opinion poll showed 81%
against his inclusion in the squad, but Seedorf seems genuinely
hurt by the suggestion that he is contentious – or unpopular.
"Wherever I go the fans are warm to me, even from Inter," he says.
"I think I'm outspoken, but I think people respect me for that. Who
does not talk cannot be judged. Who does not shoot the penalty
cannot miss."
Whatever his own view, over the years stories have circulated
about infamous run-ins with managers and players. Famously Fabio
Capello, then manager of Real Madrid, was alleged to have thrown
his jacket at Seedorf because the player was talking tactics at
half-time, shouting: "If you know it all so well, you be the
coach!"
Seedorf plays down the story as, "a discussion about nothing",
but his recollections of the England manager are revealing. "When
you talk about me and Capello, you talk about two personalities. If
I have an opinion and I don't agree with you that's it, and he was
the same. Capello used the guys with strong personalities – I
remember he did it with [striker] Predrag Mijatovic as well – he
motivated the team by creating a discussion with somebody, by
looking for conflicts. And when he did, the team would go out and
kick butt."
He recalls his own version of the jacket-throwing incident –
minus the jacket but with a good deal of yelling. "One time we were
losing 1-0 to Atlético Madrid," he says, "playing with 10 men, and
we came in the dressing room and began talking about the game.
Capello was on the other side of the room and he asked what we were
talking about, but he didn't listen to the answer he just started
yelling. So I yelled back. That was a hot moment. But he wanted to
make a statement and it worked: the team went out and won 4-1 and I
scored.
"And then just before you go out to play he will clap you on the
back. That's his thing, it's over, right there. After the game
I remember I walked to my car, and he stopped his car beside me,
wound his window down, and shook my hand. That's Capello."
Seedorf remembers the Italian coach fondly, and there is genuine
affection in his voice as he describes being taken under his wing.
"I was just 19 when he took me to Real Madrid. He asked me
personally to go with him, and that carried a lot of importance. He
was always very clear and very tough, but also very caring. He was
one of the most important coaches in my career."
Well accustomed to Capello's autocratic style, Seedorf says he
is not at all surprised by the coach's decision to strip John Terry
of the England captaincy. "Capello couldn't do anything other than
what he did. You have to send out the right message, I don't think
you can get away with those things – like Thierry Henry and his
handball, that was a big mistake that they did not punish him.
"Footballers are role models. At the One Young World
summit [in London] last week I spoke about the responsibility we
have as sportsmen in the public eye. Yes it is a shame that the
story came out, but paparazzi and tabloids are just part of society
and you as a sports celebrity should be aware of the risk.
"But Terry has been a great captain for Chelsea and England, and
I hope he will be an even better captain in the future. Everybody
makes mistakes."
Seedorf still keeps in touch with Capello, but it is England's
first foreign manager with whom he has the closest bond. A year
spent at Sampdoria, in the care of Sven-Goran Eriksson, had the
biggest impression on his career.
"Eriksson was like a father to me," he says. "He told me about
life, he helped me to understand what was needed to survive outside
Holland. It went beyond football, it was the culture, the mentality
of the Italian players. If you don't understand that, you can
become frustrated.
"There were many problems. I came from a country where people
expressed their opinions. The mentality in Italy is to shut up and
run. That's it in a nutshell. When things go bad don't discuss it,
just run harder. In Holland it's: 'Let's sit down and discuss
things until we understand what the problem is.'"
Seedorf paints an intimate picture as he describes Eriksson
using allegory to explain the Mediterranean football culture that
was so alien to his young charge. "He said it was like people
building a house. People can relate better to the labourers working
on the house than to the architect who actually created it. In
Italy everything was about being a hard worker. I like to be
strategic when I play football, but people who don't understand the
game cannot appreciate that. Sven taught me to ombine those
qualities."
His relationship with the Dutch national team over the years has
not been so harmonious. Seedorf has not played more than a few
minutes of international football since 2006. A falling out with
then coach Marco van Basten prompted him to rule himself out of
playing for Holland at Euro 2008 before the tournament even began,
and under the current manager, Bert van Marwijk, the situation has
not improved.
Raising the issue provokes a weariness in his voice as he
reluctantly covers old ground, such as the alleged racial divide in
the team of the mid-1990s. "That was 14 years ago," he says,
irritably. "It wasn't like that. There wasn't any divide
whatsoever. The media made it like that, that's how they
function.
"The truth is there was a whole other issue going on. But I can
guarantee you that Van der Sar is not black and Bergkamp is not
black and yet I was in their rooms during practically all of the
tournament. The team had a problem that was beyond anything that
came out."
Can he relate to the internal problems of the current England
team? Seedorf bristles. "I have experienced internal issues that
were internal then, and are still now," he says. "First you have to
forgive, then you have to work together again. But it's easily
said, not easily done."
Seedorf has not retired from international football, but he will
not play a part in the World Cup this summer other than as a
television pundit. "I don't have any feeling about it at the
moment," he says, "that feeling has probably passed already. I'm
still playing for AC Milan. The national team are not calling me. I
don't want to talk about it. It [the decision] doesn't depend on
me."
As the interview draws to a close, Seedorf's physio is still
working away. "I think I'll tell him to go easy now," he says, but
he is joking. Seedorf's mind is too focused on winning his next
Champions League trophy to go easy any time soon.