UEFA CL SF 1L - Barcelona vs Manchester United - Apr 23

zocoss SG

Football is football. Chelsea comprises of 11 men, so too do Barnsley. Maybe you would like to explain why Barnsley weren't touted as the even-money joint-favourites in the FA Cup clash earlier in the season? Were the sportsbooks out of their mind to rate Barnsley as 10/1 outsiders for the tie?

I haven't got a clue if you have some serious issues with basic comprehension - either that, or you must be reading into things invisible to anyone else. What has fatigue or fitness got to do with the disdainfully defensive display on show at the Nou Camp? Mind, most of the top players actually featured. So are you chastising Ferguson for picking tired players, and therefore accounting for the 0-0 draw? Or was the 0-0 more a consequence of what was effectively a staged and planned display where defence was of paramount importance (a point which Ferguson has since alluded to post-match)?

Back to the point. Granted, those "lesser" teams you mentioned stand a chance. What does that show, really? They can win, but would, in all probability, do so less often than the big guns. Is that not a simple matter of probability? After all, would you not like to explain why the G14 clubs - combined - have amassed a Champions League (I include the record in the old European Cup in that assessment) trophy haul that amounts to more than half the number of Champions League campaigns since the tournament first started in the mid-50s? And since when do such clubs pride themselves on just claiming a "lesser" side for a scalp?

Seriously, what's the geist of all this "small club can win" talk all about? I never once said small clubs can't upset the odds, did I? Fact of the matter is, like it or not (and dispute it whatever way you want, but the facts obviously won't back you up) suggest "small clubs" succeed at a frequency far lower than their bigger counterparts. Hence, why should the biggest clubs out there settle for claiming the scalp of the small fries?

Now, back to your point about Barcelona being a big club - a big club sure they are. I'm not sure if my point is still lost on you. Obviously, in any game of football, someone's going to win at the expense of their opponents (well, in this context, someone has to qualify at the expense of the other) - big or small club, you don't expect any rational fan to be happy with elimination! That said and done, are you seriously suggesting going to the Nou Camp with a defensive-approach, not trying to get the away goal is what you'd come to expect of a side that aims to win the Champions League (or are you suggesting United are actually happy to just make the semis?) ?

The fact of the matter here is not about whether you simply get the result in the end - if you're into sports with the results being your solitary concern, you're better off following the financial markets. The geist of the point here is, United simply didn't play with the intent (playing on the counter-attack is hardly playing to win, is it?) to win and they deservedly didn't.

You could go on about being pleased they have given their all (what that "all" means is anyone's guess) and pat yourself on the back for backing a side that you reckon has done well. All said and done, and taking your words at face value, I'd rather be supporting a team that plays to win - and loses - than one that chooses to bore the hell out of (that's what the performance on Wednesday was) football purists on the back of a silly strategy that looks set to backfire.

If you're even old enough to remember Monaco back in '98, you may better appreciate the point I'm going on about. If you aren't, that just about sums up our differences - obviously, your memory of Keane will be very different from mine if all you remember about him was his post-Boro tirade.

Yes, now we are talking about football and not some McDonald restaurant anymore aren't we... Yup like i have pointed out to you earlier, its 11 men vs 11 men at most times... Its good that you brought out Barnsley as an example. Cos it just give me a good reason to inform you that since football started to become a competitive game, I belief upsets and shock results was also part of it... Barnsley not only beat Chelsea, but they also beat Liverpool at Anfield... AT ANFIELD! What were the odds of that happening? You are asking me to explain why "Barnsley weren't touted as the even-money joint-favourites in the FA Cup clash earlier in the season?" You can't be serious?

Well, since you asked... when you think of it, its common logic isn't it... We don't need a rocket scientist to tell us why Barnsley weren't touted as the even-money joint-favourites in the FA Cup... Right? You ask yourself would you exchange your brand new latest PC for an old Pentium 2 one? I think the answer is very simple right even my 12 yrs old nephew will know...

What has fatigue or fitness got to do with the disdainfully defensive display on show at the Nou Camp?

Well, plenty i guess... cos if the players are tired, they probably can't perform to their usual standard wouldn't you agree? If you are working, and after a long day at work, you wish to return and have a good rest but your employer asked you to stay back and do another 10 hrs shift... Would you still be able to perform as normal or with a more tired body? The answer is simple right... The slow pace to the game was probably to preserve the players for the 3 matches in 6 days... If you care to check up and read a little, you will find Fergie already complain about the matches being so close and trying to get his players fit for their second match in 60 hrs... I can give you a link if you want, naa... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/football.html?in_article_id=562021&in_page_id=1779&ct=5 there are more tho if you care to read them...

Coincidentally, you know last season United were also challenging for the EPL title and couldn't rest any players at this stage while AC Milan could and eventually won with a fresher team... we cannot deny it helped their cause just like it helped Pool in 2005 when they were free of all other commitments. The human body can only stretch so far, anymore and it can't take it. And if you have forgotten, Before United travel to Spain, they had a very tough physical match against Blackbure... Therefore going to Spain and running around crazy in a gung ho manner could backfire... You saw they went to Roma last yr and tried that way and ended up losing 1-2. Btw, is Roma a big club for you? Just curious between Roma and Barce, which is bigger to you?

Now it seems to me that you are on the fence in most of the points you wish to address... Pick a side and stick to it can... From your earlier post, you said 0 - 0 in the nou camp is a bad result, then we got...

"For the record, at no stage did I suggest going to the Nou Camp and win was a divine right " .... Then...

That said, you must be living in your own world to think getting a 0-0 draw away from home at one of the top sides in Europe is a good result .... Then ....

how is that coming any closer to justifying what is still a poor result for a team that aspires to win the Champions League and not simply make up the numbers?

Stop contradicting yourself can... you are making me confuse... and now you are saying...

Seriously, what's the geist of all this "small club can win" talk all about? I never once said small clubs can't upset the odds, did I? ... Then we get...

Seriously, are you suggesting Lyon (worth remembering this season's Lyon is not the one from seasons gone by), Rangers, Stuttgart, Celtic and Schalke are teams you consider to be genuine contenders for the Champions League?

Yes, why not... Did anyone give Porto half a chance in 2004? Did anyone thought Monaco would even get close to the final in 2004 despite all the by your own words (standards are sky-high at the big clubs teams)? I bet you didn't right since you seem to think all these smaller clubs couldn't be consider to be genuine contenders for the Champions League...

Well, lets see... if Barnsley can beat the 2 semi-finalist of this year's CL clubs and very soon one of the finalist... Why can't these clubs Lyon, Rangers, Stuttgart, Celtic and Schalke be consider to be genuine contenders for the Champions League... No doubt their chances are slim but slim doesn't mean no chance right? if they are there, there is still a chance... Then you look at the FA Cup. The (standards are sky-high at the big clubs teams) aren't there anymore, instead we got only 1 premiership club left, the others i'm not sure some league 1, 2 sides for the semis, final?

So Barcelona is a BIG club to you now right? ok... so getting a difficult scoreless draw away at a big club where other teams have concede and lost is not a good result to you? So you think they should have scored and won? No one is suggesting going to the Nou Camp with a defensive-approach, not trying to get the away goal. It just happens that they couldn't get an away goal thats all! They tried but couldn't, they even had a penalty but was unfortunate could not score... Of course they would have like a goal too if they can get it... I bet you would like to be paid like our minister too right but you tried and couldn't so you settle for lesser right? Same scenario...

My memory of Keane is still very clear its not all i remember about him was his post-Boro tirade. It was you who mention...

Was it not his tirade after a 4-1 defeat at Boro that woke United up in a late charge for the title, albeit futile?

I think you are crediting something that he didn't had a hand in... During that time, Keane was a disruptive influence on the squad... He was creating trouble with other players... Shortly after that Boro incident Fergie took the step to removed him. And after he left the team started to perform better. So if Keane left shortly after that Boro match how could he be credited for the better performance?

Just before that Boro incident, he complained about the training camp in Portugal, when he argued with Ferguson over the quality of the set-up at the resort. Keane's appearances on MUTV provoked more controversy, when, after the humiliating 4–1 defeat at the hands of Middlesbrough in early November, he took the opportunity to criticise the performances of JOS, Alan Smith, Richardson and Fletcher. The harshest analysis, however, was reserved for the club's record signing Rio Ferdinand... He even had problems with Carlos Queiroz if i am not wrong...

Lastly, I like to say it again, I never mention it's a great achievement just to make it to the semis and anything beyond that is a bonus, all i said is as long as they tried and go as far as they can, they have done enough in my view. Remember what i have said, in sports you can never be first all your life... sometimes you just have to accept defeat graciously and look forward to another season... Even if the 0-0 isn't enough, it still doesn't change my support for the club or the team...

walesa SG