Liverpool could be saved!

Medicated Oil SG

Ah Ben got it right for:

- Torres, Masche, Reina, Bellamy, Agger, Skrtel, Crouch, Reira, Benny,

He got it wrong for all the rest.

No youth matured from the youth team although they have done well in the youth league.

Poignant SG

reira?

he's out for me.

charleslee SG

Hundreds of millions? Its only 2 hundred. But first we have to see how these debts came about...

Well, why i said we can't fault them is because they have given Rafa more money then people realise... He have got more than any other Pool manager ever received... Liverpool were bought by American owners, so is Aston Villa. So we take Villa as a more likely comparable.

Villa's American owner Randy Lerner have given Martin O'Neill a lot lesser to purchased players during this period compare to Rafa... Liverpool were amongst the top clubs before Rafa took over, Villa on the other hand wasn't. They went from bad to worse before O'Neill took over, they were fighting relegation and ended the season on 16 position in the table of 20... These were all in 2006 only.

Rafa on the other hand, had good support when the 2 Americans came... They immediately bought Mascherano for a then club record of $18m... And they follow that up with another new record of $20m for Torres. And if you add those I mentioned earlier, the Babel, Pennant, Benayoun, Lucas, Leto and of course Torres and Masch, all bought in year 2007, Its already close to $70m here... What about those undisclosed fees for the others? And all these in year 2007 only... Rafa follow that up with another $45m in 2008...

And lets not forget how badly he has also squander in Keane as well and Johnson looks like another one... So how can anyone even think of blaming the 2 American owners is beyond me... Cos the $240m loan they owe, You can see its like almost half of it went into the purchased of players alone... and $45m was the original debt before they came...

Now we look at O'Neill... with little fundings, he bought players that are useful. His selection of players and match tactics is the reason Villa is current above Pool... If you talk about who spent more, Villa will be way below Liverpool in the money league... Their most expensive player is maybe $12m i think in James Milner...

Another good example we see is... Rafa spent $11m for Babel while O'Neill spent $8 on Ashley Young... They joint about around the same time. Today Young is probably worth 2 to 3 times his original value but Babel probably 2/3 of his now...

And its true that there was a report that Rafa has spent more or almost level with United these last 5 years... And if we take into the account of players sold during this time, United also recoup more to Rafa's Pool...

but i thought majority of the debt came from buying the club itself and the new stadium plan?

zocoss SG

but i thought majority of the debt came from buying the club itself and the new stadium plan?

They indeed took a loan to buy the club... But look at the sum Rafa spent since they came to Liverpool... About $120m in 07 and 08... Where do you think those money came from?

These 2 guys bought the club for less than $220m, $45m were debts from the previous owner they inherited... But now they owe the banks $240m? Obviously they can't be owing more then what they purchased the club for right unless...

The way I see it is, They took a loan to purchased the club... But they also took extra to finance Rafa's $120m year 07 and 08 purchased... Cos if they can't even afford the club outright and took a loan to buy it, then where did Rafa's shopping spree came from?

And I think we don't even need to talk about the new stadium yet... I believed the money for it isn't accounted for yet with the current loans... I think the current $240m debts is just for the purchased of the club and players... I guess there should be more to come if they intend to build the new stadium... Maybe to a tune of another $300m.

Ythakisoka09 SG

Ten signings who could save liverpool..

hamidisaidi SG

zocoss.....thanks for replying to La Nina...who obviously is one of those who bought into the bull that Rafa has not had the financial support from the owners.

I simply cant be bothered anymore correcting the people who throw that as an excuse.Obviously case of the blind leading the blind.

Shidreth SG

By dis beautiful morning,my opinion let gillet sale to a saudi multi billionaire so we can enjoy d top player in liverpool ^_^ v

La Nina SG

I don't deny that under the Americans Liverpool has progressed with the financial support. This would be impossible if the club is still under Moores. But is the financial support enough? We are barely able to compete with clubs like Manchester United and Chelsea. Every season they bring in a 30m player while we settle with second-rate players. The Americans give us a 20m transfer kitty every summer. This summer, players like Kuyt, Torres and gerrard were given contract extensions and all the money required was deducted from this 20m transfer kitty. Find me another club that does this. As a result, we need to sell to buy. Now, the January transfer window is about to open. Arda Turn at 22, already captain of Galatasaray with 32 National Caps and one of the most promising youngsters has issued a come and get me plea to Liverpool. But again, Reina is set to be given a new contract and money will again be deducted from our small pool of kitty. He will probably end up at another club. The Americans themselves do not see Liverpool as a football club but rather a business investment. They will offload as soon as a 500m pounds offer come in when they themselves spent only approximately 200m pounds to manage Liverpool. Greedy bastards, no?

Medicated Oil SG

There was some observations that some of Liverpool players have throw in the towel and no longer fight.

It will be proven later if they decide to play well.

As for Ah Ben, his ultra-defensive tactics and special protection against out of form players will be his own undoing.

If he is not fielding Babel due to personal grudges, then he is not fit to stay as he is hurting the progress of Liverpool.

Rooney9 SG

could it be that babel was over rated and rafa dun find him a good player?

La Nina SG

As for Ah Ben, his ultra-defensive tactics and special protection against out of form players will be his own undoing.

If he is not fielding Babel due to personal grudges, then he is not fit to stay as he is hurting the progress of Liverpool.

Agreed. But if Babel has a stinking attitude, he should be sold at an instant. Look at Quaresma. Touted as the next Ronaldo. Where is he now? Rotting on the bench of inter.

Poignant SG

Agreed. But if Babel has a stinking attitude, he should be sold at an instant. Look at Quaresma. Touted as the next Ronaldo. Where is he now? Rotting on the bench of inter.

quaresma dont always make it to the bench

La Nina SG

could it be that babel was over rated and rafa dun find him a good player?

Not really. He spent 11m pounds on him and Babel did really well in his first season. Reports seem to suggest that Babel just doesn't seem to have the 'right attitude'. Ngog has gotten ahead of him and Benitez was praising him for having the 'right attitude'.

Medicated Oil SG

Right attitude - Left wing plus drop back to defend.

Only Kuyt fits Ah Ben requirement.

But, he is hopelessly retarded in front of goal.

If you are not field regularly to show your boss you can play, what right attitude can you have ?

Poignant SG

ngog is nothing but a joke can

La Nina SG

Attitude during training. Rafa was quoted recently that Ngog has a great attitude in training, willing to learn from everybody. And he seems to be hinting that Babel has a poor attitude. Dirk Kuyt has been shit all this season and he yet hardly goes with Babel. i really pity Babel and i would be sad if he was sold. This guy came with so much potential and when he's on the ball, i dare say he's the most dangerous player after Torres. But sometimes his touch is real shit and he lacks a footballing brain. Maybe all he needs is a run of games.

Edit: He's just been left out of Liverpool's clash with Wolves. Benitez opted to go with youngsters like Darby, Spearing and Pacheco. Same with Voronin, Degen and Dossena. Seems like they are off. Maybe one last appearance on tues to put them on the shop window.

And pls look out for Pacheco. He's gonna be the next big thing.

zocoss SG

I don't deny that under the Americans Liverpool has progressed with the financial support. This would be impossible if the club is still under Moores. But is the financial support enough? We are barely able to compete with clubs like Manchester United and Chelsea. Every season they bring in a 30m bring in while we settle with second-rate players. The Americans give us a 20m transfer kitty every summer. This summer, players like Kuyt, Torres and gerrard were given contract extensions and all the money required was deducted from this 20m transfer kitty. Find me another club that does this. As a result, we need to sell to buy. Now, the January transfer window is about to open. Arda Turn at 22, already captain of Galatasaray with 32 National Caps and one of the most promising youngsters has issued a come and get me plea to Liverpool. But again, Reina is set to be given a new contract and money will again be deducted from our small pool of kitty. He will probably end up at another club. The Americans themselves do not see Liverpool as a football club but rather a business investment. They will offload as soon as a 500m pounds offer come in when they themselves spent only approximately 200m pounds to manage Liverpool. Greedy bastards, no?

The financial support is never enough if you are Rafa... Why do I say this? Cos he squander the money needlessly... Had he made better used of the money he got, then he won't need to keep complaining that he haven't got enough... He would have got all the players in place already. Just one player can make a lot of difference... But unfortunately, he have got it wrong too many times.

Robbie Keane was a good example. I don't think he is a bad player, I guess he just couldn't get along with Rafa... Probably the same with Alonso too... Johnson is just another one... Not that he is a very poor player but he is just overpaid, for the transfer and even his salary... Imagine if you are Gerrard and played there all your live till now coming to 30 years old... You are not just seen as one of the best player at the club but in the world. And he goes out and get someone who is hardly a world class player and offer him a higher salary than you... How would you feel?

There are just too many examples he lose good money for the club. Selling good and useful players like Bellamy, Crouch, Keane... Buying poor players at high fees... Dossena, Riera and even Aquilani... As good as some people claims he is, Its still a waste of such a big sum for someone who isn't fully fit and can't play for so long... The season is already over for Pool and he is only about to start... The money could have been better used to strengthen the squad for this season and go and get him with next season's budget if he really recovers or if he really like him that much...

Like you have said yourself, before they came Pool can spend $20m on average per season... But the last 3 seasons they have spent like $160m or more. That's like more than $50m per season. Is that very little? Compare to United, they have to let Tevez go cos his owner wanted too high a fee and they won't match his salary at City... Then there was Benzema, they let it go too cos they couldn't afford the $35m Euros Lyon wanted... In the end, they settled for a free Owen which Rafa didn't want in the first place...

Liverpool's current problems is down to Rafa... Like I said earlier you compare O'Neill at Villa... He have lesser money right? People go out and buy Dunne, he paid more for Dossena... O'Neill buy Young he buy Babel, O'Neill promote Milner, he promote Lucas. O'Neill brought Agbonlahor up from the youth, he bring N'Gog in. I don't think they are very bad players, it just that he doesn't bring the best out of them... And his match tactics, players selection and sub used... Even Pool fans are upset... That day I saw a disgruntled Dossena who keeps asking to go back to Italy starting on the left wing when he is more of a left back and fit Babel and Benayoun on the bench... I actually found it funny... But I can tell you, if i was a Pool fan, I wouldn't find it one bit funny at all... That is Rafa... good as he is but he have more minus than plus this season.

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