Why is it so hard for Int'l students to enroll in a JC?

JagWar SG

Hi,

Just finished my IGCSEs from an international school in June 2013 (school year for most international schools is Aug-June).

I arrived in Singapore almost straight after - hoping to find a place to study in a JC primarily. It is only now I have tried to enroll in a JC as my IGCSE results arrived around October and I just recieved my J-PACT results (exam for international students to sign up for JCs). However, I keep getting the same response from JCs - stating that they have to wait for the Singaporean students to receive their O levels which will come Jan 2014. This is completely fine by me as they take Singaporean students as a priority over Int'l students.

The only problem I have is that I have to wait - hoping for a place in a decent JC. But what happens if the places are full? Are there any JCs that would accept an Int'l students regardless of O levels? I understand that JCs look for locals and PRs.. but what about Int'l students? Shouldn't they at least allow a few int'l students to enter every year (say a maximum vancancy of 5-10) instead of using those spaces for locals and PRs?

And also, the J-PACT exam I took was to qualify myself to a JC - where JCs would use my score from that exam to determine if I'm eligible or not. But when I present to JCs that I have taken the J-PACT, they said I would still need to take a test - which I find pointless and ridiculous. Why do I need to take a entrance test when I've already taken an exam that proves that I'm fit for a JC?? I mean, what???

To put this into perspective, imagine giving a JC your O level results, and then they say that your O levels are only used to qualify for their entrance test - meaning that there is ZERO guarantee that you can be admitted to their school solely based from your O levels and you must take a test. Doesn't make sense really..

Is this a scheme made by JCs (or the MOE) to eradicate international students from their mainstream education? I know Singaporeans strongly detest the fact that there are more foreigners and overseas workers here, but to go to this extreme? And an international school is not an option in this stage as it is too costly.

Right now, I don't mind going to poly, but the thing is - I don't want to waste almost 11 months with no school. I want to start school as soon as possible. If I were to go to a poly, I would have to wait to April 2014 - where the outcome of my application would be announced, and this WILL still not guarantee me a spot in a course I would have applied for as they obviously would have to take Singaporeans and PRs as a priority over Int'l students.

I dont know...its just really frustrating for me as I have yet to find a school here.

Summer hill SG

Hi,

Just finished my IGCSEs from an international school in June 2013 (school year for most international schools is Aug-June).

I dont know...its just really frustrating for me as I have yet to find a school here.

It is not easy to get into a JC in Singapore even for Singaporeans. You need at least a B3 for every subject for 'O', and even if you get B3, you go into our lousiest JCs. [which no one wants to go.]. We take 6 subjects, if you add up the points, if you get B3 for every subject it will add up to 18 points. Yishun JC has the lowest bar, at 20 points.

No, it is not because you are a foriegner. Please do tell me how well you performed, if you did or did not get any grade equivalent of a distinction in 'O' levels, you can forget about going to those top JCs, especially those offering IB progammes. Only 2 JCs offers IB, ACS independent and St. Joseph’s Institution. Since I'll need at least 7 points to get into St. Joseph, I will need 5 A1s and 1 A2. Otherwise, I can forget about it.

I think your grades are not enough to enter our JCs. We don't hate foriegners, we hate foriegners who don't meet our requirements and whines about taking an entrance test. I hope you did really well get and have a near-perfect score for your IGCSE so that you can qualify for our JCs.

Summer hill SG

and also, unless you are desperate to go into a university in Singapore, please don't opt for the JC route unless you are going to our top JCs.

JagWar SG

I see...well for my IGCSEs, I sort of got a near-perfect score (depending on your definition of perfect score) with 6 A* and 2 As. Sadly, for my J-PACT I got a B3 for both Eng and Math (they only test English and E-Math). However, I don't think JCs take into consideration my IGCSEs as most of them only ask for my J-PACT. Or do they?

To be completely honest, yes, I won't deny that I am whining about taking an entrance test. But it just doesn't make sense. I don't get why I have to take an English and Math entrance test when I've already done the same test from the principals academy. (J-PACT is equivalent to O level standards - maybe that's why I got lower marks :P)

Regarding your statement on going to a lousy JC, so you mean to say that it would be better going to a good poly then go to a lousy JC en route to a good university in Singapore? If that's the case, then I may need to reconsider my priorities.

Summer hill SG

My defination of a lousy JC is any JC that doesn't have any special progammes. This is entirely my person opinion.

It dependent on your interest, I like humanities. So I strive to enter schools which can offer me humanities scholarship. [http://www.moe.gov.sg/education/scholarships/moe-preu/humanities/]. To suceed in my country's civil service and earn over 10k, I better get a scholar and get sponsered by the government to study up to a PHD.

Poly or JC? Tell me what you want to do at the end of the day when you are finally out of the education system and if you want to enter our local JCs.

bernch SG

My defination of a lousy JC is any JC that doesn't have any special progammes. This is entirely my person opinion.

Poly or JC? Tell me what you want to do at the end of the day when you are finally out of the education system and if you want to enter our local JCs.

To TS, I would just like to say that no JC can really be said to be lousy - at the end of the day, it all depends on how much effort we are willing to put in. There are students in the so-called lousier JCs who perform well, and likewise, there are people from the top-end JCs who perform really really badly. I am from RJ and I can say for sure that there are people who fail their A levels despite having been in an elite environment for 2 years or more. So yup, don't give up on going to a JC if that's really your goal. After all going to a poly would entail having to pick a course, which you cannot be really sure you like. At least a JC education would allow you to pick a range of subjects to study.

And to Summer hill, I would just like to say that even the so-called lousier JCs do have their own special programmes as well, whether MOE or school-initiated. For example schools like TPJC have the malay language elective programme, while Nanyang JC has the art elective programmme.

And perhaps it would be good for you to know that getting the humanities scholarship is not easy, and even if you do, so what? If you screw up your A's it's not gonna save you. Most of the humanities scholars do not receive special treatment in their schools anyway, unless you're a humanities scholar at RJ or HC, where there are intact classes for the Humanities Programme (HP) students (who may or may not be recipients of the scholarship but had to go through a rigorous selection process to get into the programme) and they have expatriate tutors for most of their subjects except for GP, PW and Math. I am a science student but I would say that, yes, being in the HP at RJ or HC would be quite a big deal - extra opportunities and all - but in other schools, so what even if you're a humanities scholar? If you're serious about doing well in the humanities though, I would like to sincerely encourage you to work on improving your English. A good command of the language is essential for essay-writing and to put it bluntly, it's quite obvious from what you've typed above that your sentence structure, grammar and spelling are poor. Not sure if anyone has told you that before but if I'm the first, then I hope you'll be able to accept my advice. Cheers and I hope you'll make it to the HP at RJ! It's a good environment :)

JagWar SG

Thank you for your insight, bernch. From your post, I agree that there is no such thing as a bad JC – it just depends on the students in it. However, that is not my concern. My concern is the difficulty for foreigners (not returning Singaporeans) to enter JCs. I know that it’s hard enough for locals and PRs to enter JCs and I understand that. Based from my score in the J-PACT (B3 for Eng and E-maths), I don’t think JCs such as HC or RJ will even look at my application. B3 is a bad score to get in E-maths and english, right?

I’ve been out of school for months and will have to wait till the middle of Jan next year for a JC to enroll me, but that all depends if they still have space for int’l students. As such, it is an understatement to say that my chances are low in enrolling in a JC.

Another thing that comes to mind is the JC vs Poly debate. From what I’ve heard and read, going to a JC has a higher chance of you going to a local university. But what happens if you just have an average score in your A levels? For instance, who has the higher chances in going to a local uni – An average scoring A level student (Bs and Cs) or a slightly above average poly student (GPA of 3.0-3.2)?? I’m not familiar with the selection process of local unis – maybe someone can explain this to me?

bernch SG

I do believe that some of the lower-ranked JCs don't manage to fill up all their places (Innova and Yishun JCs come to mind) so I think you'll stand a higher chance if you liaise with these schools! I really don't think your chances are that low so keep trying yeah :)

An average scoring A level student definitely stands a higher chance than a slightly abover average poly student. Sad but it's the truth. If you were to look at the Indicative Grade Profiles of the local universities you would realise that a GPA of 3.0-3.2 gets you nowhere, absolutely nowhere but a string of Bs and Cs in your A levels would still get you a place, though probably not in a course of your choice.

For your reference:

http://www.nus.edu.sg/oam/gradeprofile/sprogramme-igp.html

http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/oad2/website_files/IGP/AY12-13_IGP.pdf

http://www.smu.edu.sg/sites/default/files/admissions/pdf/gradeprofile.pdf

Hope this helps! Feel free to PM me if you need any more help; I'm almost done with my A's (just 3 more papers to go!) and I would be glad to help if I can.

deathmaster SG

Some points to note:

1. Apparently not all O' Levels are the same. The UK O' levels is the easiest, followed by the iGCSE, with Singapore O' Level being the hardest.

For the UK and IGCSE, grades are based on a fixed range of marks, and that explains the ease of getting outlandishly good grades such as A*.

Singapore O level is graded by the bell curve, where grades are based on percentiles and not marks.

Therefore your A* is translated to a B3 grade here.

To be honest, I don't think your chances are good. An average-rank JC would be looking at L1R5 of around 12 points, translating to A2 averages.

For the bottom-ranking JCs, the likelihood of qualifying for uni is very low.

Competition for uni placing is very, very fierce in Singapore. In fact, it is many times harder to get into NUS than Cambridge. Here, admission is based on 7 subjects, whereas UK requires only 3.

Students from top JCs are going to form the majority of students in our local unis.

Based on national statistics, only 25% of each cohort makes it to a local uni. The remaining 75% don't. From personal observation, around 60-70% of uni students come from JCs.

For popular courses such as medicine, the grade profile is straight As, and many do have 7 As.

Even for the less popular courses, the cut-off grades is around BBC/C.

For poly students, while tests are easier, it is very hard to maintain a high GPA. Popular courses would require 3.8, while less popular courses would require 3.5GPA. It means that you must be constantly scoring As in poly, with the exception of a small handful of Bs in your 3 yr of poly.