Time does not exists - Andrew PK Yap

last SG · 2007-05-27T12:03:19+00:00

To your question of whether time exists.. you answered it yourself Originally posted by AndrewPKYap: hahaha I worry because, like length and breadth and time...

AndrewPKYap SG

Laughing

AndrewPKYap SG

I am a human being, makes sense because everyone knows what a human being is. I am a mammal, makes sense because everyone knows what a mammal is. I am a primate, makes sense because everyone knows what a primate is.

In all of the above sentences, people can look up the dictionary and find out what you mean when you say: I am .....

If anyone looks up the dictionary, he sees:

Time
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are two distinct views on the meaning of time. One view is that time is linear and part of the fundamental structure of the universe, a dimension in which events occur in sequence, and time itself is something that can be measured. This is the realist's view, to which Sir Isaac Newton subscribed.[1]

A contrasting view is that time is part of the fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which we sequence events, quantify the duration of events and the intervals between them, and compare the motions of objects. In this view, time does not refer to any kind of entity that "flows", that objects "move through", or that is a "container" for events. This view is in the tradition of Gottfried Leibniz[2] and Immanuel Kant,[3][4] in which time, rather than being an objective thing to be measured, is part of the mental measuring system. The question, perhaps overly simplified and allowing for no middle ground, is thus: is time a "real thing" that is "all around us", or is it nothing more than a way of speaking about and measuring events?

So which distinct view on the meaning of Time are you referring to?

AndrewPKYap SG

When you say:

I am Time?

kwlee SG

let me give u something simpler...

if your dad dun exist, u dun exist.

apples SG

Just look at what Andrew use to write. He use "Said", "invented" and countless other past and future tense. If he believe time do not exists, he wouldn't even be writing in past tense, future tense, etc.

This is pure nonsense. Saying something is not true but yet using the concept of time in his words??

AndrewPKYap SG

yes, but "HOW" does your dad exist? "HOW" do you exist?

AndrewPKYap SG

You don't think that the concept of time exists? Shocked

This is pure nonsense.... how can you be so nonsensical as to claim that the concept of time does not exist? Rolling Eyes

An Eternal Now SG

Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
I am a human being, makes sense because everyone knows what a human being is. I am a mammal, makes sense because everyone knows what a mammal is. I am a primate, makes sense because everyone knows what a primate is.

In all of the above sentences, people can look up the dictionary and find out what you mean when you say: I am .....

If anyone looks up the dictionary, he sees:

[b]Time
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are two distinct views on the meaning of time. One view is that time is linear and part of the fundamental structure of the universe, a dimension in which events occur in sequence, and time itself is something that can be measured. This is the realist's view, to which Sir Isaac Newton subscribed.[1]

A contrasting view is that time is part of the fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which we sequence events, quantify the duration of events and the intervals between them, and compare the motions of objects. In this view, time does not refer to any kind of entity that "flows", that objects "move through", or that is a "container" for events. This view is in the tradition of Gottfried Leibniz[2] and Immanuel Kant,[3][4] in which time, rather than being an objective thing to be measured, is part of the mental measuring system. The question, perhaps overly simplified and allowing for no middle ground, is thus: is time a "real thing" that is "all around us", or is it nothing more than a way of speaking about and measuring events?

So which distinct view on the meaning of Time are you referring to?[/b]

My understanding of time is not the Realist's understanding of time. Under the teachings of Emptiness, the understanding of the realist and the nihilist are both rejected.

Second definition of time seems better but I'm not sure if I understood what they meant. Time is indeed not a container for events or things happening, it is not a 'link' for someting that changes from this, to that. What arises, arises spontaneously, as Time, NOT in time. There is no coming and going, there is no movement in time and space.

Change occurs, but there is no changing 'thing'. There is NO duality of time and object. The trees and grasses is time. The keyboard I am typing now is time.

An Eternal Now SG

It seems like the second explanation, though does not posit time as a container, is still dealing with comparisons. When there is comparison between two 'objects', which is a concept, is still movement in time. This is not being-time.

There is no movement in reality, only change. All there is is time and change, no changing 'things'. Everything is of this nature.

Herzog_Zwei SG

And the Buddhist outlook is also wrong as it cannot be proven true. So all views on time itself is wrong.

An Eternal Now SG

The Buddhist view on time is the only one that can be experienced intuitively. All other views are concepts, theories and clinging.

An Eternal Now SG

For those interested in understand my view on Time, pls read the second article (especially part IV) in: Nondual Thinking and the Mahayana Deconstruction of Time by David Loy. First article is also a great read and mentions about spontaneous arising as well.

Herzog_Zwei SG

Intuition does not mean that the view is correct and you are still clinging on to your views.

An Eternal Now SG

Sorry if you did not get what I meant.

What I meant is it is reality that can be directly experienced, and not derived from theories and concept. One who realises this reality does not even need to establish a view, because a view is still conceptual. All illusory views and concepts are however, destroyed. There is just empty-luminous spontaneous arising appearances, that is it, that is all.

Isis SG

Time was a concept that was fabricated by man in the first place.

erm btw can u explain why do we need to know this ?

Herzog_Zwei SG

You experience reality and you find that it confirms the theories and concepts then you are the one who is disillusioned.

AndrewPKYap SG

Reality, AEN... you still get hungry and need to eat... face reality...

This thread is not about getting at the truth because we can always turn to the back of the math book and find the answer... yet knowing the answer is... useless... (this statement for the benefit of Isis as well).

You have jumped from the debate of "Time does not exists" to "The nature of the universe, according to Buddhism"

Sure, we can debate "The nature of the universe, according to Buddhism"

That is not clearing up in your own head whether or not Time exists.

In order for you to clear up in your own head the existence or the lack of the existence of time... the struggle, the effort... of working it out in your mind is where you will reap the great benefits.... is where you will banish the curse of Dukka. This is how you will defeat ignorance in your life...

AndrewPKYap SG

This thread is not about getting at the truth because we can always turn to the back of the math book and find the answer... yet knowing the answer is... useless... (this statement for the benefit of Isis as well).

You have to clear up in your own head whether or not Time exists.

In order for you to clear up in your own head the existence or the lack of the existence of time... the struggle, the effort... of working it out in your mind is where you will reap the great benefits.... is where you will banish the curse of Dukka. This is how you will defeat ignorance in your life...

An Eternal Now SG

That's what we have been discussing all the while... the existence of time, to which i said, it is not a matter of whether time exists or not (exist and not exist are all dualistic concepts).... Time is Existence (i.e everything that appears to you right now) itself, and there is no 'time' that is something separate from existence, or containing existence. Everything is spontaneously arising as Time itself, there is no 'thing' that is being contained in time and moving through space-time, and neither is there a fixed 'you' moving through space-time, growing old, etc.

Conclusion: yes time is unreal -- we can only be time and not know time, there is no duality of time as the container and the contained, therefore there is no truly existing time moving linearly as we usually think of.

Herzog_Zwei SG

Buddy, Time is considered to be a slip-space demension. So it is a thing.

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