Malaysian AV8

101davidtan SG · 2012-11-05T22:15:05+00:00

lol point there story, I didn’t see that part of his, but frankly, this e-peen comparing is stupid. If he wants to do Malaysia uber alles, he’s really got th...

101davidtan SG

Malaysian AV8 to will be in 12 variants.
To be delivered 2013 to 2018.
Total cost US$ 2.4 billion for 257 units.

Variants are
- 68 AFVs with LCT30 turret with stabilized 30 mm dual feed cannon, 7.62 mm coax, 2 man turret
- 54 AFVs with LCT30 turret with stabilized 30 mm dual feed cannon, 7.62 mm coax & 4 Ingwe ATGMs
- 46 IFVs with Sharpshooter stabilized 25 mm cannon, 7.62 mm coax in one man turret
- 24 surveillance vehicles with mast mounted sensors, battlefield radar
- 13 command vehicles
- 10 APCs with 50 cal RWS
- 9 ambulances
- 9 recovery vehicles
- 9 fitter vehicles
- 8 TDA 120 mm rifled mortar carriers
- 4 engineer/NBC recon vehicles
- 3 signals vehicles

Specs
- 24 ton max gross weight
- 7.62 mm AP protection all round
- 14.5 mm AP frontal 60 mm arc
- 155 mm burst fragments protection for roof
- 6 kg mine belly protection
- 8 kg mine wheel protection
- 523 hp V6 Deutz diesel, 6 speed transmission, 21.8hp/ton
- run flats, central tyre inflation
- amphibious
- powered ramp
- 2.5 kVA aux power unit
- 13 ton self recovery winch
- NBC detection system
- Tropical specs air con
- Safetank fuel tanks
- daylight / thermal cameras ( facing front & back ) for driver
- camera suite
- navigation system

Malaysian AV8s are very well armed compared to SAF Terrex.
Aux power unit is good feature.
Good power to weight ratio. Better than Terrex ?

ahtansh SG

Malaysia training starts young, Legoland Malaysia has a Fireman/Police response academy.

weasel1962 SG

Comparing AV8 with terrex = different roles. Terrex = battlefield taxi. It transports troops to frontline then sitback and act as network node. The dismounted troops then use ACMS to ID targets for the big boys. Bionix = IFV. It fights with troops.

Some armies prefer tracked IFVs to wheeled IFVs as the latter has mobility issues on certain terrains. Wheeled battlefield taxi = effective where supporting road networks are excellent.

The 168x25mm/30mm cannons are needed for Malaysian army. Prior to the AV-8, only 31 Adnans are sharpshooter equipped. The 12.7mm armed remaining KIFV and Adnans = lightly armed. The much older condors (with 20mm cannon) are barely able to keep in service. Malaysia will take awhile before an ACMS equivalent enters service.

There are already many hundreds of bionix 25 and bionix Mk 2 in SAF service.

101davidtan SG

The Malaysian AV8s are used as battlefield taxis.
With 30 mm cannons, ATGMs & 120 mm mortars, the battalion already has the organic firepower to overmatch any Terrex they encounter.

weasel1962 SG

With organic assets eg MBTs, UAVs, heavy artillery, attached assets eg Atk helos, air support, organic spike ATGM platoon & organic 120mm mortar platoon per SAF infantry battalion, the MY battalion won't encounter just any Terrex...assuming they get past the bionix first.

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/press_room/official_releases/nr/2012/oct/10oct12_nr2/10oct12_infographic.html

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/press_room/official_releases/nr/2012/oct/10oct12_nr2/10oct12_infographic2.html

sgdiehard SG

The Malaysian AV8s are used as battlefield taxis.
With 30 mm cannons, ATGMs & 120 mm mortars, the battalion already has the organic firepower to overmatch any Terrex they encounter.

got taxi now so don't need to go battle in buses or on foot, good match.

as for firepower, with 30 mm, ATGM and 120 mm mortar, you overmatch? it is over estimate yourself and under estimate others.

101davidtan SG

In addition to the AV8s with 30 mm cannon/ATGMs/120 mortars, there will also be PT91s with ERA, Adnans,G5s, FH 70s, 36 Astros II launchers, various ATGMs and SHORADS, F18s etc. and a professional full time army. Definitely a very serious force to reckon with. Definitely not a pushover.
SAF also has no holding power.

weasel1962 SG

8 x 120mm vehicles out of 257 is not a lot. Only 8 more in the Adnans = 16 total. The mortar platoon of a MAF battalion generally uses the 81mm incl 14 adnan/KIFV mounted. The SAF battalion's mortar platoon uses 120mm, whether towed, bronco or LSV. 120mm ER munitions even outrange the 105mm M56 gun, not to mention SRAM's high fire rate.

The brigade or division arty assets is even more sparse. G-5/worn out FH-70s, 1-2 regts of unguided Astros MLRS and very old 105mm model 56s. In contrast, XX number of SA battalions comprising primus, FH88/2000, pegasus and himars. With ST producing its own howitzers, no surprises on that many number.

Thankfully, the AV-8 will fight alongside Terrex than against it.

weasel1962 SG

MAF: 48 PT-91s. SAF:154 Leopard 2SG.

MAF: 16x 120mm mortars in the entire army. SAF: every battalion with 120mm mortar platoon

RMAF: 8 F-18s, 18 Su-30s RSAF: 24 F-15s, 60 F-16s, 20 AH-64s.

MAF: Unguided Astros SAF: GMLRS equipped Himars.

MAF: 20+ G-5s SAF: 50 Primus SPH, 50+ Pegasus, 150+ FH-88/2000

MAF: 12 bdes (10 inf, 1 para, 1 mech) SAF: 26 bdes (4 armoured, 19 inf, 3 guards)

MAF is a full time army and the SAF outnumbers it. The only holding power SAF needs is to hold Singapore. It has been doing exactly that for the past 47 years and counting. Its not MY vs SG but MY + SG.

sgdiehard SG

With foreign debts at 51% GDP, we are hoping that Malaysia won't topple by itself, who is pushing?

Singapore has held up well since independence, who is to say we have no holding power.

101davidtan SG

Agreed that it shud be Terrex alongside AV8s.

Hardware quality & quantity comparisons always do not tell
whole story & is only theory. Many real events show that
hardware advantages never guarantee victory.

SAF will outnumber any opposing force only when fully mobilized.
And for how long can SAF stay fully mobilized for a worst case scenario ?

101davidtan SG

The following nos of SAF equipment look like they are overestimated

154 Leopard 2SGs ?
50 Primus SPH, 50 + Pegasus, 150+ FH-88/2000 ?

weasel1962 SG

On the L2SGs, numbers are according to UN report submitted by German government on their arms sales which ties to Singapore government UN report on purchases. Deliveries were reported as

2007: 1, 2008: 26, 2009: 12, 2010: 56, 2011: 59.

That's up to calendar year 2011. Not sure if anymore being imported in 2012. You can check the source numbers yourself at (under UN register of conventional arms)

http://www.un.org/disarmament

Primus number was ascertained using vehicle license plates (55001 to 55053). Pegasus number is based on barrel imports (110) less primus which uses the same barrel (corroborated with visual evidence. Other numbers are based on number of SA battalions (4 divisions x 2 towed 155mm bn per div) = 8 battalions = about 150 guns (incl 1 battery at 23 SA.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

MY debt is government debt not foreign. Actual MY foreign debt (~RM17b) is very low. apprx 23% of MY domestic debts are held by foreigners. Same system as Singapore. Singapore's government debt is higher at 108.3% (as at end 2011) with zero foreign debt. SG higher % is partly due to short term T-bills issued that skews the percentage. MY issues under 1% T-bills. Short term T-bills are used for cashflow management. No issue on finances.

sgdiehard SG

Agreed that it shud be Terrex alongside AV8s.

Hardware quality & quantity comparisons always do not tell
whole story & is only theory. Many real events show that
hardware advantages never guarantee victory.

SAF will outnumber any opposing force only when fully mobilized.
And for how long can SAF stay fully mobilized for a worst case scenario ?

It depends on how long it takes to crush our enemy...to those who often compare themselves with Singapore on strength and power, we should not take very long.

weasel1962 SG

The Singapore air force and navy is fully operational 24/7. As for army, I think most SAF personnel know how long (or rather short) it takes to get mobilised.The point about the SAF is that it enjoys concentration. 70+ thousand soldiers is maintained 24/7 (regulars plus 2 years of NSmen) within the little red dot.

Malaysia has bigger deployment issues for its army. 1st division is kept in East Malaysia. 2nd div is in the North. 4th div is in the middle (KL area) whilst the most deployable 3rd div is in the south (Melaka). Even to drive from KL to JB will take several hours. How long will it take a reservist to report to camp in puny Singapore?

No one, not even Malaysia, can deploy 70,000 troops within the combat reach of Singapore before Singapore mobilises. So the SAF already enjoys numerical advantage 24/7.

The Malaysia deployment clearly illustrates why its MY+SG. 3rd div can deploy to any other parts of Malaysia fastest (esp as it has 10th para bde and 4th mech). The only reason I can think of why it would deploy like that is because Singapore can cover the rear end i.e. free 3rd div.

101davidtan SG

Regarding “crushing of enemies”, it depends on the definition of crush. There are also political & world community considerations when one decides to “crush ” an enemy.

sgdiehard SG

neh...we don't really want to crush anybody unless we have to, after all considerations...we are happy with our life here, just remember that we are our own abang, Testing of our holding power is going to be very costly, no discount and no subsidy.

Just leave us alone, you come our MBS, we go your lego land,... got AV8 in there or not?

Underpaid SG

Guys, don’t start please.

That means you ah tan.

Whoever starts a war between SG and MY is an idiot, remember that, both countries will suffer.

So don’t be an idiot tan.

101davidtan SG

With a potential 154 L2 platforms to work with that means a very sizable
number of L2 SGs & variants ( combat engineer, recovery, bridgelayer etc ) that will end up in front line service. Also there will be a small pool fo L2s for spares cannibalization.

The numbers alone of L2 SGs that will be on front line service will mean a very very hard
force to beat for any potential aggressor.

weasel1962 SG

The numbers alone of L2 SGs that will be on front line service will mean a very very hard
force to beat for any potential aggressor.

Good point except there is no evidence of any other variants (other than one used as a welcoming doormat). For bridging, there are the M3G, FLB, M60 AVLB and AMX-13 AVLB. In particular for bridging, the new M3G is MLC85 and suggestions are that these was acquired for the L2. For recovery, none noted except for the bionix. For CE, many are still wondering what will replace the M60 variant. I believe that at least 99 L2s will be used to form a brigade worth (add 33 if another battalion). Possible to have 4 x L2 battalions. 1 each for each of the 4 Arm brigades.