What would you love to see on an Ultimax 2.0

alize SG

Didn't know about the backpack 7.62. Guess they really WERE testing everything.

Dave, the IAR project didn't use 100 round mags for any of the contenders, so how can you say it was that lack that disqualified the U100? Shouldn't ALL the entries be disqualified then?

As for the 30 rounds... well.. we can make do with rapid reloading, though the gunner will curse and swear. The ROF will be constant enough, not like it's totally a 10 second pause where you can go for a quick toilet break. Besides, I already mentioned the possible improved mag in the original post.

It wasn't a test, it was practice that continued until the late 70s!

Didn't GKS say never do to your NSFs what you won't do to your brothers? Don't think he meant it.

Waste of a rifleman or ammo bearer. I don't know how the Israelis let this slide. Isn't every man precious to them?

Asro, please spare this thread.

Underpaid SG

Shhh!!! Don't tempt him.

They probably figured they needed the MG more than they needed an extra rifle. There were pictures in some WWII books I have of some Russian using his buddy as an MG rest so he can kneel and fire his MG at aircraft, so it's hardly unique and a very old practice.

"Teo! I don't mind you using me as an MG tripod, but can you stop saying things like "Fetch boy! Fetch!"?" lol

I was around when they tried to fit a 120mm motar into an M-113. It fired fine, but when it came time to move, the repeated shocks threw the tracks of the -113, so I guess that was why they had to come up with the SRAM. It was an.. interesting.. test. Same with pallet dropping a SM-1. Broke the suspension. Interesting times, interesting times.

GAH!! Off topic, off topic. :)

alize SG

Shhh!!! Don't tempt him.

"Teo! I don't mind you using me as an MG tripod, but can you stop saying things like "Fetch boy! Fetch!"?" lol

GAH!! Off topic, off topic. :)

Confused, isn't a 120mm on an M-113 a normal thing?

Dropped an SM-1... from a C-130? Trying to follow BMP with retro rockets? Hope no crew inside. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080711030114AA92QE4

I want to know more about these episodes man. Damn interesting.

Underpaid SG

Nope, no crew. Guess they wanted to give the guards/cdos a bit more followup punch. Failed though. Nothing I can find on Razeng indicated an armour drop was carried out.

The US had the M1064 carrier, that was ok. Have no idea why ours throw track. Maybe different motar? Ours probably had a higher peak ground pressure. Or maybe our $1 M-113s finally couldn't take it, too old. :)

alize SG

Airlifting armour goes beyond raiding and recon. I wonder if we had enough C-130 to maintain an airhead, particularly if it is far from our lines.

Definitely a move aimed at Malaysia. Wonder if the destination was the Klang river valley to get at the principal port, main population centre and capital.

Got any more cool stories from Old SAF to share bro?

Note: our AMX-13s were also $1 from France. That's why we bought 350 for use and spares.

alize SG

Though I was also thinking along the lines of what you were thinking alise. The AI isn't too in need of new MGs though, they got the GPMG and the 40/50 to back them up, and if it gets worrying, there's always the 35mm and Mr 105mm. It's the poor pure infantry that's a bit short on stopping power. Backpack ammo-ed 7.62? Another design for another day, now is Ultimax.

Wait...

What is the 35mm? It's not M-113 OWS, Bionix II, Apache chain gun, CIS AGL... can't be RSAF 35mm AA...

What is the 105mm? Can't be RR (actual caliber is 105), can't be AMX-10, can't be Bionix or Terrex MGS, not even M-60 CEV... can't be Centurion...

Either I've got severe mental block or... something we don't know about? Shed light brother.

Underpaid SG

35mm is the new gun for the Bionix II AFV. The 105 was a screwup on my part, it was the M1's main gun, not the Leopard's 120mm

Edit. My memory must be going. Seems like the new AFV gun is 30mm, not 35. Strange, could have sworn it was 35... *cry*!! Senility pending!! :P

davechng SG

underpaid

for a LMG to be using 30 rders is kind of a handicap ... since the U100 did not have a better feeding system, it is another handicap to the system. that 2 hole mod that we have on the SAW is just way too flimsy.... maybe this 60 and 100 rd mags made by SUrefire might be an answer! but again! they got to have a better way to secure the AR magazines when you have such heavier loadings!

as for controllability in FA! it is not all about the ROF... somtimes the weight and balance and of course technique on controlling a full auto fire ! mag dumps on my M4 having a 850 rpm controls much better than the M16A1 or the FNC!

Anywya! my point being we have a good system on the U100! but it still fall short on things so minor !!

DaveC

alize SG

Good gun but mismatched mag, our SAW gunners carrying dead weight without joy is most lamentable.

USMC IAR goals have a point: either go heavy with belt feed, or go light with 30 round mags. Their new HK416-based weapon is 3.6kg.

Anyway disappointed with the 35/105mm, thought we bought an AC-130 Spectre gunship.

Underpaid SG

Dave, which part of my original post said I disagree on the mag that you've to try so hard to convince me? I agree on the mag increase, so please stop trying to preach to the choir. Dual feedpath mags have a flaw in that if you're unlucky enough to have 2 rounds feeding through the common path at the same time, it jams. Anyway, moot point. With a standardized magwell, it should take all M-16/4 compatible mags regardless of who made it. Unfortunately, we no longer use M-16/4 compatible mags...

I'm actually not too worried on the 30 rounders though, fire control is such that you fire in short bursts, not long chains of FA fire, you can slip a mag change in among the fire breaks fairly easily. FA full dumps is for the range or if you're in so much shit that you're outnumbered 20 to 1 without support. Which unfortunately sometimes happen, but is not so common as depicted in media. Though I would be happier if they could solve the problem.

alise, wonder if we can quick convert a C-130 for that :) After all, we got the guns and the bird, just need the fire control.

weasel1962 SG

Fire support can be from mortars/arty.

If want bigger firepower, now there's 227mm calibre called the [email protected] 90+km range, enough to cover any operational battle areas.

alize SG

Btw I heard from a Bionix II driver that the upgrade from 25 to 30mm was partially because the old 25mm installation was very buggy and prone to IA.

And the minigun might already be implemented by SAF, maybe in Joint SOF. Navy Open House had an M134 on display.

Underpaid SG

Yeah, the Bushmaster 1 has a very bad rep in many armies.

So to date we have:

1) Better/thicker metal,

2) P-rails

3) M-4 stock

4) Better bipod

5) bigger mag

6) 1:7 -done

7) Stiff sliding trigger.

Possible:

Bullpuping to reduce length. Depending on mag though. A bottom feed would end up too close to the shoulder.

And for the hell of it:

Triple rotating barrels. :P

Did I miss anything?

alize SG

35mm is the new gun for the Bionix II AFV. The 105 was a screwup on my part, it was the M1's main gun, not the Leopard's 120mm

Edit. My memory must be going. Seems like the new AFV gun is 30mm, not 35. Strange, could have sworn it was 35... *cry*!! Senility pending!! :P

Eh sorry I did not call you Sir but lucky I didn't salute.

alize SG

Yeah, the Bushmaster 1 has a very bad rep in many armies.

So to date we have:

1) Better/thicker metal,

2) P-rails

3) M-4 stock

4) Better bipod

5) bigger mag

6) 1:7 -done

7) Stiff sliding trigger.

Possible:

Bullpuping to reduce length. Depending on mag though. A bottom feed would end up too close to the shoulder.

And for the hell of it:

Triple rotating barrels. :P

Did I miss anything?

If you put top feed, how to aim?

Check out the P90 box and Bizon helical magazines, both are high cap but for short SMG rounds.

Underpaid SG

Not top feed straight up, more like side loaded but curved in a J shape so the mag body lies flat on top of the SAW. Have to move the sights higher up though if the mag blocks the view. Anyway just speculation, not hard design yet :)

alize SG

I wonder if bullpup is possible. When you hold a long object, it's easier to hold with hands further apart instead of close together in the middle. With the mass of barrel and mag far from the support of your hands, movement is less efficient.

Underpaid SG

Agree, which is why the barrel shroud can't be reduced further in length as then the foregrip becomes too close. No way we can get a 30cm SAW, best case is probably a snub-nosed 100 round (maybe) 5.56 SAW, where the barrel don't protrude too much.

I'm more worried about the engineering. To bullpup a conventional rifle, you'll really have to butcher the original design from the ground up. All you have to do is recite prayers and you can probably market it as halal. (I just had an image of an NSman chewing on his gun... yummy...). That's funny hyperbole and exaggeration for those of you who didn't get it.

Mag position has to change, trigger grip has to move forward, barrel moves back, P-rail optics cannot interfere with new mag position etc. A major redesign.

alize SG

Hope weight doesn't increase with bullpup. Actually no one has noticed how the SAR-21 looks like the QBZ-95. The QBZ is quite light though with a barrel only 2 inches shorter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-95

(More interesting is the new QJY-88 "GMPG" which fires their standard rifle round and weights less than an M-249. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QJY-88)

Sad that the one exception when the govt will not look East is when quality really counts.

One more point for you: a SAW should have an exposed barrel for cooling. Ultimax gives a vertical foregrip, a horizontal one can be included in M-16/M-203 style with holes for airflow & drying, just small enough to block fingers.

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