JSF--a reality or mirage?

lionnoisy SG

We have read enough articles abt positive side of JSF F 35.

This is time to read another side of the coin.

I suggest u guys read more on US Senate and Congress reports on JSF.

This is still under "in the developmental and test phase".

according to Defence Capability Plan (DCP),Australia,2009 July.

Let me introduce the authors of first article_

Pierre M Sprey, together with Colonel John
Boyd and Colonel Everest Riccioni, brought to
fruition the F-16; he also led the design team for
the A-10 and helped implement the programme.
Winslow T Wheeler is the director of the
Straus Military Reform Project at the Center for
Defense Information in Washington.

Glossing over the F-35
JSF aircraft project

sources--jdw.janes.com • JDW • 6 May 2009 • 23

http://www.cdi.org/pdfs/WheelerSpreyF35Janes09.pdf

Even more astounding, the programme
plans to verify only 17 per cent of the aircraft’s
characteristics with flight-testing, according
to the Government Accountability Office and
Pentagon insiders. The rest will be verified by
computer simulations, testbeds, and desk studies.
Desk studies?
It gets even worse. For survival against enemies
in the air, the F-35 will depend on the same
technological dream of BVR combat. It has to
– as a close-in dogfighter, it is a disaster.

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other references

http://www.pdf-search-engine.com/f-35-pdf-7.html

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http://fas.org/sgp/crs/weapons/RL30563.pdf

US Congressional Research

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By PIERRE M. SPREY
and WINSLOW T. WHEELER

http://www.counterpunch.org/sprey09092008.html

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http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2008/11/pierre-spreys-ideal-us-airpowe.html

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Playing+defense%3a+cutting+military+spending+is+politically+unpopular%2c...-a0195135294

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our fren down under alreday decided to buy up to 100 JSF,without much

assessment on other options!!

here

Defence Capability Plan (DCP),Australia,2009 July.

mmmm

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Singapore has also invested in the project...

You mean to say our leaders don't know how to properly choose projects?

touchstone_2000 SG

I have no doubt that the F-35 will be build and delivered to the USAF and USN. Its capabilites just need some time to develop. Remember, other planes too some time work out the kinks.

What I am really doubtful is if we will ever get to order the planes.

1. Sticker price
2. Timeline - can't order the planes before our mod specialist has some playtiem with it?
3. Capabilities versus what we have and what we will ever use against.
4. The cost of reopening the production line for F-15 and/or F-16

weasel1962 SG

Its not "will be built". F-35's first batch almost completed for delivery in 2010 and fourth lot already ordered.

No cost of reopening production line for F-15 and F-16s cos they haven't closed. Not with SK and SG holding up the F-15 production whilst Morocco and Romania being the latest customers of F-16s, Taiwan begging for 60 more F-16s new-builds and F-16INs being a candidate for IAF.

It is no longer a question of whether F-35 will enter rsaf service but when and how many. SG did not sign a "letter of intent" which cost up to US$50m to participate in the SDD phase if it did not intend to procure the F-35.

touchstone_2000 SG

The SDD phase is just look, no touching. Considering the cost of the aircraft, it is a trivial sum.

Personally I think the JSF may be ordered much more further into the future than most observers think. I would not be so rash to get into 3rd in queue (after UK and Israel) once they start releasing to non US operators. The other half of the magic of the modern combat aircraft is the avionics.

As I have stated before we need our modder/s to be familiarised before embarking.

2020?

weasel1962 SG

SG will actually be further back the queue as UK, US, Dutch have already ordered and Turkey, Italy, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Australia already committed whilst Israel is only likely to join.

SG letter of intent, like Israel's letter of intent is intended to allow SG to purchase low rate production aircraft ie from 2012 onwards.

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2004/mar/16mar04_nr.html

"As an SCP, Singapore can also request early purchase of the JSF for delivery from 2012 onwards."

Otherwise, why pay just to look? LM will more than willingly provide adequate info to other prospective buyers.

It is an assumption that SG's F-35 will need Israeli modifications. It is likely to do equally well without as everyone else don't want Israeli mods even USAF. And more probably any mods can be retrofit if it is useful.

As to actual date of rsaf service, wait for official announcement loh.

lionnoisy SG

Now read an extract by Janes staff writer

Pentagon, NATO Allies Forge Ahead With First Global Stealth Fighter [email protected] Jun 08, 2009 08:56 PDT

http://www.janes.com/news/defence/jdw/jdw090608_1_n.shtml

Janes
June 8, 2009

The JSF big bet: F-35 Joint Strike Fighter update
By Caitlin Harrington

-The delivery of the multirole stealth fighter to US allies would allow the US to seize the initiative in the development of future concepts of operations for air-to-air and air-to-ground missions in hostile airspace.
The fighter is also expected to increase interoperability among allied air forces....

Even as a sputtering global economy has led much of the industrialised world to shy away from risky financial investments, the US Department of Defense (DoD) is charging ahead with its daring USD300 billion plan to build the world's first international stealth fighter.

The stakes are so high that some aviation analysts refer to the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter as the 'big bet', meaning that while the potential rewards may be substantial, the risks are equal or greater.

The biggest acquisition programme in Pentagon history, the F-35 project is expected to result in the delivery of three fighter jet variants - a conventional aircraft, a short take-off/vertical landing model and a carrier variant - to the US and eight partner nations including Australia, Canada, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Turkey and the UK.

If the US military and prime contractor Lockheed Martin manage production and acquisition effectively, the F-35 could help the US military play the lead role in shaping the character of 21st-century airpower.

The delivery of the multirole stealth fighter to US allies would allow the US to seize the initiative in the development of future concepts of operations for air-to-air and air-to-ground missions in hostile airspace.

The fighter is also expected to increase interoperability among allied air forces and create new training and maintenance requirements that will foster stronger military-to-military and industry ties. Finally, F-35 production techniques hold the promise of revolutionising stealth aircraft manufacturing.

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Will u buy a $500,000 car without testing it?

The yankees just order JSF without carrying out full test.

lll

Atobe SG

Now read an extract by Janes staff writer

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Will u buy a $500,000 car without testing it?

The yankees just order JSF without carrying out full test.

lll

If $500,000 is peanuts - why not ?

Do you have $500,000 to blow away and can be considered as 'peanuts' ?

Otherwise, plug the noise that make your pussy so noisy.

How would a noisy pussy know if "the yankees just order JSF without carrying out full test" ?

Are they obliged to inform a noisy pussy every stage of their military work plan ?

Obviously, the noisy pussy have not a clue of the advancement made with computer simulation that is used even to hone the skills of pilots, and the super computers used to test a nuclear device without even a live test being conducted.

Will the noisy pussy return to its cave and watch out for the cave man coming after its pussy skin ?

lionnoisy SG

If $500,000 is peanuts - why not ?

Do you have $500,000 to blow away and can be considered as 'peanuts' ?

Otherwise, plug the noise that make your pussy so noisy.

How would a noisy pussy know if "the yankees just order JSF without carrying out full test" ?

Are they obliged to inform a noisy pussy every stage of their military work plan ?

Will the noisy pussy return to its cave and watch out for the cave man coming after its pussy skin ?

http://www.cdi.org/pdfs/WheelerSpreyF35Janes09.pdf

my knowledage is not comparable with u.

But are u comparable with the authors of the 2 articles appeared

in Janes i mentioned above?Pl read more before u talk.

Yankees is so stupid to trust computer simulation.read below.

SG does not believe.

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Glossing over the F-35 JSF aircraft project

sources--jdw.janes.com • JDW • 6 May 2009 • 23

http://www.cdi.org/pdfs/WheelerSpreyF35Janes09.pdf

u can just search failed or test in this article then u know USA

has not tested F 35 too much and poured in billions dollars.

Instead, we got pseudo-prototypes, which
wags in the Pentagon called “a paint job the
shape of an F-22”. With these two non-prototypes,
the Department of Defense (DoD) also
failed to have a combat fly-off, failed to explore
the F-22’s main features such as the engines
and combat-critical avionics, and failed to test
the vaunted “stealth” in-flight against actual
enemy radars

sss

Shotgun SG

No use arguing whether the F-35 is a reality or mirage. The issue about the F-35 is simply that there is no other alternative left. It is the ONLY multirole 5th Gen coming up for THREE services of the US military.

The F-35 has to achieve the expectations set for it, and it will.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

If the JSF is a reality or mariage is something lionnoisy is not really concerned about, he's more concerned with using each and every situtation can use it to claim national superiority in some childish way.

The fact that Singapore has also invested in the JSF In february 2003, where it joined the JSF program's System Design and Development (SDD) Phase, as a Security Co-operation Participant (SCP) seems to be lost on him.

So how on earth he can be happy if the JSF is not doing well given it would reflect badly on us when we have a stake in it as well, is something that only we can guess about, but my guess is quite simply he was so intent on finding stuff to bash other nations he ended up shooting himself in the foot.

Atobe SG

http://www.cdi.org/pdfs/WheelerSpreyF35Janes09.pdf

my knowledage is not comparable with u.

But are u comparable with the authors of the 2 articles appeared

in Janes i mentioned above?Pl read more before u talk.

Yankees is so stupid to trust computer simulation.read below.

SG does not believe.

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Glossing over the F-35 JSF aircraft project

sources--jdw.janes.com • JDW • 6 May 2009 • 23

http://www.cdi.org/pdfs/WheelerSpreyF35Janes09.pdf

u can just search failed or test in this article then u know USA

has not tested F 35 too much and poured in billions dollars.

sss

In the characteristic style of the noisy pussy - the noise will precede the arrival of the pussy.

Can we trust your ability to be honest with your details ?

Will you place your bet on these two characters and question the collective wisdom of all the leadership at different levels and from different countries that have committed themselves to the JSF program ?

Can we count on the unbias views towards the JSF, when background check reveals that ‘Pierre M Sprey became heavily involved in the design of two key Air Force warplanes -- the F-16 fighter and the A-10 ground attack jet. ’ (*1) ?

Does the noisy pussy know what Pierre Sprey’s ideal US air power fleet consist of ? (*2)

Will you believe that his ideal fleet for the 21st Century and beyond remains with airframes that date back twenty years ago ?

At his present age indulging in reminiscing the romance of the F-16 and A-10 that were his babies, we can trust the brilliance of the noisy pussy to depend on one who makes as loud a noise to impress your pussy.

Who is Winslow T Wheeler ? (*3)

In 2002, Wheeler authored an essay, under the pseudonym "Spartacus," about Congress' reaction to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorists attacks ("Mr. Smith Is Dead: No One Stands in the Way as Congress Lards Post-September 11 Defense Bills with Pork"). When Senators complained about Wheeler's criticisms, he was invited to resign from his position with the Republican staff of the Senate Budget Committee. He is now a senior fellow and director of the Straus Military Reform Project at the Center for Defense Information. (*4)

With the Senate and Congress jointly dismissing Winslow T Wheeler for his indiscretion in abusing the privilege of his relationship with members of the Senate and Congress - can his views and opinions be relied on ?

Can a person with pet peeve be objective in any views towards those who have crossed him before ?

Only a noisy pussy will be drawn to characters with similar dubious agenda, and tainted by their preferred pet political prejudice - can we trust your pussy for making all the noise that clearly focus on your inability to be circumspect on any issues ?