Rafale out of India MRCA comp

slim10 SG

Unconfirmed reports suggest Rafale out of India MRCA comp. F-18, F-16, gripen and Mig-35 remain.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4042443&c=ASI&s=AIR

Sepecat SG

No big surprise as Rafale has consistently lost out on almost all major fighter aircraft purchases - except in France of course.

weasel1962 SG

Tech evals completed. Next stage flight testing.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/06/03/327275/india-completes-fighter-evaluation-readies-for-flight.html

Shotgun SG

No big surprise as Rafale has consistently lost out on almost all major fighter aircraft purchases - except in France of course.

But to be rejected by the Indians is another thing!

Sepecat SG

Shotgun - you have to explain yourself ; what do you mean ?

sundaytimes SG

Nothing to be proud of.

Until today India still have to import fighter plane these countries.

Why during the 1930s the Japanese already can produce their own plane. The jap zero fighters are really fear by the american and brits.

Why india still cannot fully produce our own top class fighters to show the world.

India had so many engineers and scientists.

India cannot forever depend on import weapons.

I don't believe the white. Our people is already bully in Australia.

Uncle4edgar SG

The F-4 Phantom II was a twin-engine, all-weather, fighter-bomber. The Phantom was first used by the U.S. Navy as an interceptor but also was capable of flying as a ground-support bomber for the U.S. Marine Corps. The aircraft could perform three tactical air roles — air superiority, interdiction and close air support — as it did in southeast Asia. McDonnell designed one of the greatest fighters of the postwar era as a company venture to meet anticipated future needs. Planned as an attack aircraft with four 20mm guns, it was quickly changed into a very advanced gunless all-weather interceptor with advanced radar and missile armament. The aircraft flew every traditional military mission: air superiority, close air support, interception, air defense suppression, long-range strike, fleet defense, attack and reconnaissance.

Uncle4edgar SG

This Ching-Kuo IDF fighter aircraft could also be the choice for the Indian Air Force.

TAIPEI (AFX) - Taiwan's air force is preparing to test two upgraded versions of its locally-developed fighter aimed at increasing the plane's range and firepower, Jane's Defence Weekly said.

The two prototypes, being produced by the Aerospace Industrial Development Corp (AIDC), are an improved version of the Ching-Kuo Indigenous Defence Fighter (IDF), the weekly said in a article to be published on Wednesday.

It said both the range and weaponry of the plane are intentionally limited under the US technology transfer program that was crucial to the IDF's development in the 1980s.

Uncle4edgar SG

The intermediate jet trainer, designated HJT-36, is known in India as the Sitara ('Star'). Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) started design work on the intermediate jet trainer in 1997. The concept was initially developed as a successor to the successful Kiran trainer for the Indian Air Force and Navy. HAL was awarded a contract in 1999 by the government of the Republic of India for the completion of development, testing and certification of two prototype IJT aircraft.

In February 2003, a contract for an initial 16 trainers for the Indian Air Force was placed. An Indian Air Force demand for 200 to 250 aircraft is envisaged with a market potential for higher numbers. Two prototype aircraft have been built. Over 280 flights have been completed by the aircraft. The HJT-36 is scheduled to enter service with the Indian Air Force in 2010

I hope the Indian Air Force will also be able to sell some of this Sitaras to the Philippine Air Force.

spartan_6 SG

Uncle4edgar SG

While the Mirage IIIC was being put into production, Dassault was also considering a multi-role/strike variant of the aircraft, which eventually materialized as the Mirage IIIE. The first of three prototypes flew on 1 April 1961.

The Mirage IIIE differed from the IIIC interceptor most obviously in having a 300 mm (11.8 in) forward fuselage extension to increase the size of the avionics bay behind the cockpit. The stretch also helped increase fuel capacity, as the Mirage IIIC had marginal range and improvements were needed. The stretch was small and hard to notice, but the clue is that the bottom edge of the canopy on a Mirage IIIE ends directly above the top lip of the air intake, while on the IIIC it ends visibly back of the lip.

Many Mirage IIIE variants were also fitted with a Marconi continuous-wave Doppler navigation radar radome on the bottom of the fuselage, under the cockpit. However, while no IIICs had this feature, it was not universal on all variants of the IIIE. A similar inconsistent variation in Mirage fighter versions was the presence or absence of an HF antenna that was fitted as a forward extension to the vertical tailplane. On some Mirages, the leading edge of the tailplane was a straight line, while on those with the HF antenna the leading edge had a sloping extension forward. The extension appears to have been generally standard on production Mirage IIIAs and Mirage IIICs, but only appeared in some of the export versions of the Mirage IIIE.

The IIIE featured Thomson-CSF Cyrano II dual mode air / ground radar; a radar warning receiver (RWR) system with the antennas mounted in the vertical tailplane; and an Atar 09C engine, with a petal-style variable exhaust.

The first production Mirage IIIE was delivered to the AdA in January 1964, and a total of 192 were eventually delivered to that service.

Total production of the Mirage IIIE, including exports, was substantially larger than that of the Mirage IIIC, including exports, totaling 523 aircraft. In the mid-1960s one Mirage IIIE was fitted with the improved SNECMA Atar 09K-6 turbojet for trials, and given the confusing designation of Mirage IIIC2.

Singmarine SG

Actually rafale is a modern fighter, not sure why it failed repeatedly over those older generation fighters.

At least the french has build good aircraft before such as Mirage III & Mirage 2000 etc hence those technologies should also be incorporate into Rafale.

spartan_6 SG

E main reason i believe is tat currently e Rafale is an excellent aircraft but with a cock-up radar unless e AESA radar is fitted, given e current tend it is unlikely 2 be selected. E rafale completing in e MMRCA is supposed 2 be fitted with an active version of e PESA currently fitted 2 F.2 standards as per India's requirements

spartan_6 SG

E rafale is currently offically still 1 of e contenter

India's short-listed it contenter to 6 aircraft

F/A-18E/F

BLK 60 F-16E/F

Gripen NG

EF-2000 with CASAR AESA

MIG-35

Rafale F.3

spartan_6 SG

key requirement is an AESA radar

spartan_6 SG

Correct as of 060709

Singmarine SG

Then how about the radar of other contenders? The funny thing is that F16 Block60, F/A18 Super Hornet still managed to get into the semi finals…

spartan_6 SG

Both e BLK60 F-16E/F & F/A-18E/F r equipped with an AESA radar

Shotgun SG

Why should it be funny? The F-16 and F-18E designs are proven already. All the need is a bit of a rework in the avionics department to contend against other fighters like the Typhoon or (God forbid) the Sukhois.

Todays air warfare is a systemic approach where datalinks, communications and detection is more important than the aircraft's ability to conduct post-stall manuevers at > 200knots.

weasel1962 SG

Even within competing AESA radars, there is a difference in capability.

In the context of the IAF, imho, the F-16IN actually most suits the IAF and will win it hands-down in a non-political field.

The IAF requires a cheap fighter to partner the sukhoi. That already rules out the competitors except the gripen. In terms of capability, the AESA equipped F-16IN exceeds the capability of the gripen.

The typhoon, rafale, super hornet can make an argument for efficiency in that in terms of per aircraft basis, it can out-perform the F-16IN. However, all fail in the primary consideration of the IAF in that the IAF is gunning to maintain or increase the no of sqns. Cost wise, the 3 cannot be procured in the numbers that can justify the sqn nos esp when factoring in maintenance, munitions and airplane cost.

The Mig-35 suffers from serviceability issues and being twin-engined like the super hornet will ensure that maintenance cost is significantly higher.

Factoring in the other positives, eg training, as a lead in fighter to the F-35, something which I mentioned before LM put in to its marketing brochures, the access to the far cheaper range of munitions offered by the USAF eg SDB, JSOW, SFW (already in IAF service), Harpoons, AIM-120D (future), paveways etc, makes the F-16IN a superior choice. The end of the F-16 line will also allow better bargaining in terms of cost and oppotunities for Indian industry participation.

Besides AESA, SDB in particular should be a big, big plus for the F-16IN.

The defensive suites of the Typhoon, Rafale and Super Hornets are probably superior esp in terms of integration into the airframe but the suites available to the F-16IN does mitigate this somewhat.

The biggest hurdles has been that Pakistan has F-16s and US restriction on arms use including the threat of embargo. The earlier is actually deceptive cos there are already more than enough suks to over-kill the PAF and the F-16INs are actually primed to tackle the threat of the PLAAF esp when considering the airbasing restrictions for the PLAAF in Tibet. The latter ie embargo can be managed with the huge supply of spares from operators around the world and serviceability plants set up in India.

Imho, it makes sense for the F-16IN selection, if properly handled.