Lionnoisy's War against Everything Australian: Hobart DDGs

last SG · 2008-08-16T11:51:47+00:00

Since when was the Aelgis system, with all it's powerful active radars and the like, as well as operating near other fleet ships which will show up on radar...

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Hey lionnoisy... how come our Formidible got christmas tree on the top of it as well?

[100_4518.JPG]

How come it still has a christmas tree mast? The rest of the ship work to reduce RCS and then the put a christmas tree on top of it?

Why can't be clean like this US future destroyer class:

Or even things like Sea Shadow?

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

How many surface combatants and sub does oz can depoly at any one time?

Where and when Oz need to deploy to overseas?

The size of the fleet,even after 3 AWD delivered,

hardly can cover the back side!!

How come you keep recycling old arguments that have been debunked in other threads?

Obviously you never heard of JORN and this thing called the RAAF.

Who is going to even try something as daft as to cross thousands of miles of ocean, a trip taking anything from days to weeks, all the while under JORN? You think the ADF is going to sit around and do nothing?

Do you think that even the USN has the strength to totally cover each and every single square inch of the Pacific and Indian oceans with their "anyday, anyhow" PHYSICAL prescence?

It seems that your old, recycled "anyday, anyhow" argument is the one that is not enough to cover your "back side" in here.

LOL.

Try harder lah, lionnoisy, you're not convincing anyone.

lionnoisy SG

Oh! Can we make more sense here?

U ONLY expose your location,if SG TY is right,when u use active radar.

But u still can remain at lower RCS when u do a better job to conceal

the hull and not using the active radar.

Your friends can tell u the targets locations so u wont expose your locations.

I think u can see the difference that your keep high RCS 24/7

(when there are too many Christmas Tree/superstructures)

and the short period of time when u use the active radar.Right?

u choose when you expose your location,but not 24 hours!!

2.Hey lionnoisy... how come our Formidible got christmas tree on the top of it as well?

It is better than A$2.5 billion or A$ 2500 million AWD,right?

It is the best we can do.What to do?

The question is"Is it the very best Oz can do?Full stop.

TOP:Singapore Formidible class Frigate.

Middle and Below:Australia proposed AWD

,to be delivered 2014!!---which one looks more stealth.

Just a layman comment and feeling.

http://www.ausawd.com/

read the news

2.In service from 2014 to 2044

http://www.ausawd.com/flash/roadshow/presentation.html

Phase 4 :Naval operation test and evaluation 2014---2018

OMG! when the Phase 4 is completed.I can bet with u Oz

will UP grade the ships!!

3.The design is NOT finalised yet!!So the outlook may be better

read the schedule as at Nov 2007 road show by ship builder Navantia:

So,when it can be delivered is questionable.

http://www.ausawd.com/flash/roadshow/presentation.html

lionnoisy SG

Can anyone tell me how u can come out with the model when

u have not finalised your design?

Isnt it very strange?

In 02 May 2008,They said

http://www.ausawd.com/news.html

A Systems Functional Review was held in March and was performed to review the segment level requirements for the Hobart Class. The Combat, Platform and Support Segment requirements by which the Ship design will be developed have been awarded a Provisional Pass subject to closing out all major actions.

http://www.defencemodels.com.au/Projects/Hobart.asp

Over the past few months, Defence Models & Graphics has been very busy with a new confidential project. After almost five years of working with companies involved with the preliminary project for the new Australian Navy Destroyers, we were approached by the Air Warfare Destroyer Alliance about constructing a number of models of the new design.

OMG.It must be a super warship with future technogy.

They spent good 5 years to think the design and still ''design in progress''!!

Shall the systems follow the model or the model follow the systems?

Pl bear with me.I am a layman and my English not so good.

Pl read how do u interpret the statement here.

To me,it looks like the ships builder and systems developers

have to follow the model!!

Besides,the reviews of designs is still in progress.

I am confused.

(AWD Alliance CEO)John Gallacher said, “These models, unlike the ones we’ve previously seen, show exactly how our ships will look, with all of the modifications required by the Royal Australian Navy.”

Commodore Cawley said the models would help systems developers and those involved in the project to see the three-dimensional operating environment of the warship.

http://www.ausawd.com/news/08-05-12_models.html

If ''systems developers and those involved in the project'' already have the final

blue prints,why do they need to see the AWD model?

Dunt tell me a building architect or a building builder need a model

to design and contruct a building!!

Or pl dunt tell me u construct a war ship by following a model!!

My layman thinking shall work in this way:

1.Navy and DSTA in SG lay down requirements of the new platform

2.Ship architect and systems designers/builders provide

solutions.

3.They then build a Model and test the RCS in a chamber,

said in NUS.Then u finalise the design according funds,technology,

time frame etc

@@@@@@@@@

But i am damn sure u are not to build a ship according to a model

which the boss feel good!!

Model follow the design,but not the other way round.

lionnoisy SG

Oh huge projetcs

http://www.ausawd.com/news/07-12-17_roi_ship_blocks.html

Block sizes are typically 15m x 12m x 9m and weighing approximately 200 tonnes. Work packages are expected to range between 20 – 40 blocks for the three Ship program, requiring between 1.6 million – 3.2 million hours for completion of all blocks. It is expected commencement of fabrication will be in the third quarter of 2009, with final deliveries expected in late 2014.

http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/gallery/652/?cat=&scope=home

,,,,,,

lionnoisy SG

video of AWD construction.

http://www.asc.com.au/images/AWD_BUILD_small.wmv

design still in progress

http://www.asc.com.au/aspx/ships_awd_construction.aspx

lionnoisy SG

wait 6 years more lah,at least

http://www.asc.com.au/aspx/ships_current_status.aspx

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

It is better than A$2.5 billion or A$ 2500 million AWD,right?

It is the best we can do.What to do?

So what? Making excuses now?

Still got Christmas tree what.

In innovative ST marine in first world country, is this acceptable?

Also are you implying that a simple covered sensor shroud for this (which you bothered to advertise), will cost billions of dollars?

Pls larh, we lously and make mistake say so larh, no need to say we no money.

So our soldiers us the basic and lously SAR-21 while we sell better versions to OTHER nations is also because we not enough money ah?

LOL

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

If ''systems developers and those involved in the project'' already have the final

blue prints,why do they need to see the AWD model?

Dunt tell me a building architect or a building builder need a model

to design and contruct a building!!

Or pl dunt tell me u construct a war ship by following a model!!

You are talking pure rubbish now.

You never heard of this thing called a mock up model ah?

Even ST engineering released mock ups of their future systems from guns to ships long before the finalized thing is out to give their customers a rough idea of what they are planning.

Dunt tell me even this practice is lost out on you and you want to make an issue of it.

Please.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

My layman thinking shall work in this way:

1.Navy and DSTA in SG lay down requirements of the new platform

2.Ship architect and systems designers/builders provide

solutions.

3.They then build a Model and test the RCS in a chamber,

said in NUS.Then u finalise the design according funds,technology,

time frame etc

@@@@@@@@@

But i am damn sure u are not to build a ship according to a model

which the boss feel good!!

Model follow the design,but not the other way round.

I think you are not thinking at all.

Even laymen do not think so simply.

LOL.

You are mixing up the concepts of mockup and final design.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

If ''systems developers and those involved in the project'' already have the final

blue prints,why do they need to see the AWD model?

That's because they already have the blueprints, and built the model based on it for the LAYMAN like you.

Even things like the Eurofighter and JSF were released in mockup model form showing how they would look exactly long before they were produced.

Surely layman thinking can allow you to deduce this.

But apparently your thinking is below that of the layman.

Lol.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Seriously lionnoisy, get educated and don't get confused over singular statements like LCS modules and now you can't even make a mental crawl to get over what a mockup means?

Mockup:

In common usage, a mockup is a scale model of a structure or device, usually used for teaching, demonstration, testing a design, etc.

A mockup should not be confused with a prototype. Prototypes are always meant to function, even if not fully so, whereas mock-ups are only meant to look like the real system, and do not function. The two are easy to confuse in software and systems engineering especially, where mockups are a way of prototyping user interfaces on paper or computer images. In many cases it is best to design the user interface before code is written or hardware is built, to avoid having to go back and make expensive changes.

Other uses

Mockups are also used in the Consumer goods industry, as part of the product development process, when the size, impression and/or artworks have to be tested and approved.

Mockup is also a frequently used term when talking about an early layout or sketch of a Web site or GUI program.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Oh! Can we make more sense here?

U ONLY expose your location,if SG TY is right,when u use active radar.

But u still can remain at lower RCS when u do a better job to conceal

the hull and not using the active radar.

LOL!

Are you out of your mind?

Do you even know how these things work?

The whole point of an Aegis system to work is for it to be ON and constantly SCANNING for threats with the radar. Turning off the system renders to air defence it provides to the fleet useless.

Can YOU make more sense here?

I wonder what your next rubbish point is going to be.

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

What can I say lionnoisy?

How come this happen to you again:

lionnoisy pwnage!

crimsontactics SG

Seriously, that sum of money could be place into better purposes.

And btw, i found this quote quite nice.

He or she who supports a State organized in the military way – whether directly or indirectly – participates in the sin. - Mahatma Gandhi

Fingolfin_Noldor SG

Why is this fucker dissing the best frigate in the region? Is he so obssessed with Stealth that he forgets this frigate is practically a destroyer-lite in its own right with the best possible weapon system that can be possibly mounted on a platform that large?

SingaporeTyrannosaur SG

Erm because he needs to feel good about the RSN and the only way by doing that is to be wilfully ignorant and ask truly silly questions like if the they are going to use the mockup as a blueprint.

His lame attempt to ask questions about the mockup being the blueprint for things was pretty funny. The duh factor on that thing is so astounding that even the "laymen" that lionnoisy claims to be can't possibly mess it up.

But somehow he did.

maurizio13 SG

What can I say lionnoisy?

How come this happen to you again:

lionnoisy pwnage!

Asian Aussie SG

The Hobart class is really a destroyer and not a frigate. They will be slightly larger than the Spanish F100 due to evolving design. Euro countries like to call their destroyers frigates as it sounds more 'peaceful'.

The $8billion cost also includes extras like support and training as well, and not just ship building cost. It is expensive, but for this price you're getting the most advanced ship in SE Asia. China doesn't have one like it, only Korea and Japan will have anything similar.

So to the dumbass lionnoisy, grow up.

On a side note, it is possible and likely that Australia will be getting EA18G growlers to complement their purchase of SHs. I was disappointed with the SH purchase due to doubts about their speed, but now I see what the logic is. The Growlers will multiply the ability of the SH by many fold.

lionnoisy SG

this version make more sense

At least it looks like Future technology,not

1980's technology lah.But it is out!!

Is it Gibbs & Cox’s ‘Evolved Design’ .?It is out!!

i think i may disappoint u all.

Oz selected Navantia’s F100 ‘Existing Design’ rather than

Gibbs & Cox’s ‘Evolved Design’ .

http://www.asc.com.au/aspx/about_us_annual_report.aspx

read overview section

pl read 18.08.2008 postings

http://www.raytheon.com.au/Default.aspx?x=332

RCS

just remember this basic rule then the ship

will not become a floating coffin.

http://www.kockums.se/products/products.html

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