Possibility of Malaysian tension requires SAF intervention?

Sardaukar-Prime SG

Given the sensitivity of the situation up north,if there were to be a repeat of the May 13 riots of 1969, would you support Singapore taking punitive military action to stabilise the situation in Malaysia?

It's very much in Singapore's national interest that our northern neighbour remain stable,but we must also bear in mind that both Indonesia and Malaysia have a history or persecuting their Chinese populations as well as being somewhat hostile to Singapore.

It would be in our interest to ensure the protection of a part of a population that wields heavy economic influence on our neighbous,namely the Chinese communities, as well as a form of deterrence,to remind our neighbours of their military dispositions relative to us.

Actions taken could be in the form of blockades or overflights of politically sensitive or vital military infrastructure,up to and including use of distance stand-off munitions such as cruise missiles,to hit vital or non-vital targets, as well as landing troops in Johore state for short intervals before withdrawal,as a show of strength.

However,it could miscalculate and result in Malaysia and/or Indonesia being united against a common threat due to stirring up nationalism and so should be considered carefully.

Despite this we should consider the use of low levels of military force to deter or harass either party involved.

Reference Operation Malindo Darsasa:

www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&se=gglsc&d=5002364045

www.library.ohiou.edu/indopubs/1996/08/21/0046.html

www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/back/journals/2000/Vol26_3/2.htm

Reference Anti-Chinese/Apartheid discrimination:

Chinese Indonesians in Post-Reformasi Indonesia

Ketuanan Melayu

Source:

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080911/tap-malaysia-politics-race-0193655.html

gaoxingdcf07 SG

but do we really need to use military to intervention the situation ??

how abt diplomacy ??

sgstars SG

do go read up on asean.

asean apparently has a non interventionist stance/agreement clause for its members. its highly unliklely singapore will act to become a pariah

go google it up and read more about it.

tankfanatic SG

no need to intervened...its a craap load of trouble (if they really resolved to that, which i seriously doubt)

Rednano SG

Malaysia's military urges action against race troublemakers
Posted: 11 September 2008 1753 hrs

KUALA LUMPUR : Malaysia's armed forces chief Thursday called for "stern action" against those inciting racial conflict in the multicultural country, after the government warned tensions were rising.

A senior member of the ruling party was suspended for three years on Wednesday for triggering a race row with an outburst against ethnic Chinese, calling them "squatters" and warning them not to seek political power.

General Abdul Aziz Zainal, the military chief who earlier this week warned that racial issues were a "major threat to the country", again called for a lid to be put on any troublemakers.

"I only voice my concern on this issue, stern action must be taken to prevent it from happening," he told a press conference.

"There is no country that wants to see itself in turmoil," he added.

Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi has raised concern about the state of ethnic relations in Malaysia, where the population is dominated by Muslim Malays who live alongside large ethnic Chinese and Indian communities.

"The racial situation in our country looks like it is showing signs of strain and increasing tensions among races," he said as he announced the measures to punish errant ruling party member Ahmad Ismail.

"We for so long have been able to control the situation so that nothing untoward happens, but we can't allow a situation like this to continue... which could affect our peace and stability," he said.

Deputy police chief Ismail Omar also sounded a warning on Wednesday, saying that racially charged statements had triggered a dangerous rash of inflammatory messages on Internet blogs and SMS text messages.

"I am issuing a stern warning to all quarters to refrain from making statements on sensitive issues via the various media," he said, according to the state Bernama news agency.

Ahmad's comments had raised fears of a split in Abdullah's coalition of race-based parties, which includes ethnic Chinese parties that were infuriated by the diatribe.

"The patience of the Malays and Muslims has a limit. Do not push us to the wall, as when we turn back we will be forced to push the Chinese in the interests of our own survival," Ahmad said in a press conference Monday.

"The Chinese should not try to be like the Jews in America -- it is not enough they control the economy, now they want political control," he said.

Malays dominate politics in Malaysia, while ethnic Chinese are prominent in business. Stirring up conflict between the groups is a serious offence in a country which is still haunted by past racial violence.

The latest row erupted as opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim -- whose Keadilan party is the first pan-racial party in Malaysian political history -- attempts to woo the support of enough coalition lawmakers to topple the government.

In March elections the opposition dramatically increased the number of seats it holds, and Anwar this week said he is "on track" to sign up the 30 defectors he needs to seize power.

arball SG

such an intervention might prove to be rather un-diplomatic lar.

we are not russia yet. (perhaps no link lar)

anws, i think such action should only be taken, (blantant intervention) only if the situation gets really out of hand.. i.e. they threaten to invade us or smth....

however, if we do that when there is no threat against us, we would be come the aggressor, and rage would be broadened from just the m-chiniese to singapore too. by then, the ties would be broken irreparably liao.

casshern SG

wat does Ex. Malindo Darsasa got to do with racial tensions?

p/s: Malindo Darsasa should be an exercise and not an operation

HyperionDCZ SG

if we merge with indonesia then we can do anything we want. other than that we'll just get our asses kicked.

casshern SG

if we merge with indonesia then we can do anything we want. other than that we'll just get our asses kicked.

i doubt so, the political unrest in Indonesia is very bad. by joining their federation is beyond my imagination

sgstars SG

its about as likley as alaska going back to russia and georgia saying they are regretful for attacking south ossentia and willingly go back to the soviet union.

ASEAN is a loose diplomatic framework that functions as a pressure/tension release valve for the many fault lines across countries within this region.

ASEAN does not condone violence against member countries. if you do know a wee bit about history, go think about asean's response to the vietnamese invasion of cambodia.

the only precedent for SAF to go in and conduct any "rescue" op, was in cambodia. 1997

http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/about_us/history/maturing_saf/v04n07_history.html

and this is different in the sense that there was extreme political instability that there was in effect, no body of government/organisation holding executive power. you can put it that there was no government, so no problem for SAF to go in and conduct the rescue op. SAF rescue op also had no permission to land at cambodia's airport but they did it anyway. that was the state of anarchy then.

read here to find out more : http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/07/27/cambod16551.htm

in malaysia's case, no matter what extent the instability is, there is a near likelyhood of 0 that the malaysian army or elements of it would attempt to stage a coup. even if the ruling faction was deposed or removed in any form, there is the opposition , which in their capacity as elected legislative officials, can constitute a government. hence i see no possibility that RSAF/SAF would even attempt anything like that as there is no justifiable legal basis for them to take extreme measures. usually hiding in the country's embassy is safe enough.

simply put, the SAF could conduct an evacuation in cambodia as no one could be called the government and the de facto power parties were engaged in a bloody coup to be paying enough attention to shoot our c130s down.

just take the 80s, the thai junta. there was a lot of bloodshed during the junta's attempt to maintain rule but there was no evacuation of the singaporean people there.

singapore cannot act so as long as there is any form of government that could protest its unsolicited presence there. cambodia was an exceptional set of circumstances. no possiblity of that even occuring remotely in malaysia.

in malaysia, even if something goes wrong and all hell breaks loose, and u end up without the government or opposition, you still have the sultans. the king/sultans hold office in the form of being able to choose the judiciary and if all executive branches of the government fail, the onus is on them to take leadership or impose some form of leadership. they also are titular heads of the malaysian military AFAIK.

LazerLordz SG

None of that sort..

Their army chaps are quite level headed, when compared to their politicians. They can take care of their own stability.

Arapahoe SG

if that happen the civil govt n military establishment are gone.

Sardaukar-Prime SG

Thank you for the feedback. But let's face it,ASEAN is quite ineffective in reigning in its members.Just look at Burma.Its an embarassment to ASEAN and on the world stage showed how bloody ineffective it is as an organisation. It has ensured stability in the past but in times of crisis requiring action?

And my original question was would you support punitive military actions?Personally I would but what is your opinion?This is a potential crisis,so its just speculation,but still,the way they play race politics is not something to take lightly.

For diplomacy with other large organisations it gives us leverage but when it comes to intra-ASEAN diplomacy it would be better to take calculated risks from a position of strength when dealing with Malaysia and Indonesia.

As for Cambodia,while there was a general isolation of Vietnam (which suffered from punitive military actiob by China in 1979 during that time),there was increased aid to Thailand for its military and refugees as a result,as well as rumoured unofficial presence of some of our troops there. We took a role in diplomatically isolating Vietnam and sanctioning them,because it was in our interest then to do so and look after the sovereignity of small nations.

sgstars SG

and isnt malaysia a "small nation" as well if you examine it in terms of population demographics ?

no issues here, but if you grasp the gist of what i m trying to say, is the likelihood of intervention is next to nothing. i quoted vietnam because its the exact Outcome we would want to avoid as a nation state, becoming a pariah, if we choose to intervene. in singaporean eyes it might be seen as humanitarian or helping our people, but in the eyes of the world, what would the opinion be ? it would be percieved as unilateral cowboy action. i m sure you can think of other more recent precedents.

Burma is a case in point. no matter what they do within internal borders, ASEAN cannot intervene in physical terms. the onus is on each country to sort its issues within by themselves, and sort the regional and bigger geopolitical issues through ASEAN.

Whats your bit about "calculated risks from a position of strength" ? mind elaborating more ? if we were to pull off any unilateral military action, it isnt going to be a benign show of strength/act of goodwill, it will only increase tension and animosity.

IMHO , its just the politicians politicking. remember the mahatir days ? the good ole thunder and lightning but nothing much really.

The litmus test for trouble would be to watch for demonstrations/street protests. when u have a mob, that is when problem really starts. within a mob, chances are, people are far more easily manipulated and far less concerned about social cohesion or the consequences of their action. in a mob, there is no decisive control over the group's action. this is when there is no restraint and chances of a all out racial conflict would escalate sharply. for a good example, look at hinraf ?

frankly i think its simply media sensationalism. i was more worried when they banned anwar's supporters from organizing a mass rally in putrajaya /march to the PM's office. that would have been NASTY if the police brutally supressed it.

dukedracula SG

foriegn military intervention will be unwlecomed, malaysia, unlike burma has a civil society and they have shown that they can weaken the govt in the march ge....badawi is probably a nice man but clearly ineffectual...mahatir is likely the only one who can put down the chaos but few non-malays would want him back, this man is clearly a racist...

for sg to even intervene on behalf of the chinese there would be suicidal, you can already see what nationalism can do....saddam was probably the biggest sob around but iraq isn't making a pleasant stay for the americans....

with burma, foriegn military might be a welcome sight to the ordinary folks but who would want to risk fighting huge number of soldiers, even if they are ill equipped...

iceFatboy SG

if that happen the civil govt n military establishment are gone.

double agree.

once military steps in, they will be chaos.

yongyong SG

what is "jews in America" ??

sgdiehard SG

if we merge with indonesia then we can do anything we want. other than that we'll just get our asses kicked.

hehehe...we can do anything we want as it is. If we merge with indonesia, we are giving our asses to them and say, "please kick."

sgdiehard SG

However,it could miscalculate and result in Malaysia and/or Indonesia being united against a common threat due to stirring up nationalism and so should be considered carefully.

Despite this we should consider the use of low levels of military force to deter or harass either party involved.

Reference Operation Malindo Darsasa:

www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&se=gglsc&d=5002364045

www.library.ohiou.edu/indopubs/1996/08/21/0046.html

www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/back/journals/2000/Vol26_3/2.htm

Reference Anti-Chinese/Apartheid discrimination:

Chinese Indonesians in Post-Reformasi Indonesia

Ketuanan Melayu

Source:

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080911/tap-malaysia-politics-race-0193655.html

First we put SAF on full alert, in case mad dog like Mathatir seige the opportunity to reclaim Petra Blanca.

At the same time we make sure that there is no similar crisis here as a result of what is up there.

Secondly, we get ready to receive some Chinese and may be even Indian from Malaysia. Like that may be we will not need too many chinese from PRC.

Thirdly, we increase our import of vege and chickens from other sources such as China and Thailand.

Finally, we can call up the other ASEAN countries to sit down and tell Malaysia that we are concerned. This is their internal affairs and we are in no position to launch punitive attack. We only need to talk, and let all their business from Pelapas, Klang come to PSA, let the investors from IDR come to our IR, let their top students come here as to become citizens.

We also need to provide some entertainment for there will be no more copied DVD, and no more cheap smuggled cigarettes, many locals here cannot tahan the high costs.

Xcert SG

However,it could miscalculate and result in Malaysia and/or Indonesia being united against a common threat due to stirring up nationalism and so should be considered carefully.

Despite this we should consider the use of low levels of military force to deter or harass either party involved.

Reference Operation Malindo Darsasa:

www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&se=gglsc&d=5002364045

www.library.ohiou.edu/indopubs/1996/08/21/0046.html

www.mindef.gov.sg/safti/pointer/back/journals/2000/Vol26_3/2.htm

Reference Anti-Chinese/Apartheid discrimination:

Chinese Indonesians in Post-Reformasi Indonesia

Ketuanan Melayu

Source:

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080911/tap-malaysia-politics-race-0193655.html

Ur neighbour family quarrel U dont go and add salt to the wounds right?

Protection to a part of a population that wields heavy economic influence on our neighbous is the MY govt's job...that's why they hold Malaysian ICs and passports.

Your show of strength idea is nothing but crap lor...U think we are the US ar?even the US is having 2nd thoughts about waging wars all over the place.