MAF abandon Steyr after 15-year service

last SG · 2007-11-07T19:31:58+00:00

Third guy from the front - is he not carrying a Steyr ?

caksz SG

The pic ... Territorial Army they only recieve surplus equipment

chino65 SG

About zeroing the M16...

Are we zeroing the weapon itself, or are we zeroing the shooter to the weapon?

We were told that a weapon zeroed by Soldier A will not fit Soldier B.

Is this correct?

And then the SAR-21 is suppose to need no zeroing. It is factory-zeroed.

...

This theory about zeroing has always puzzled me. And as usual, the instructors can't give any useful answers cos they are just trained like robots and never ask questions so they can't answer questions.

chino65 SG

Yes, he's the runner with the radio. I can understand why he picked a shorter weapon.

As the radioman I did find I needed a shorter weapon.

I carry my weapon one-handed as my left hand is always holding the radio handset.

...

In the picture the 2nd last guy has a now-extinct 7.62 magazine-fed SAW made by H&K. Someone has posted a clear picture of a TA meenah with this weapon before.

ferryman2393 SG

referring to the TA pic.

that's a very stoopid indian file. one burst of a SAW, u'd get two for the price of one. its supposed to be a military exercise. the least they could do was act the part.

Rockhound SG

Sar 21 still need to zero..1 time....LAD zero 1 time too

zeroing is zeroing the weapon to the shooter...not zeroing the shooter to the weapon..

if we do the latter..means need surgery already

SpecOps87 SG

HK21?

Daniel-Lim SG

If crossing a river, the SOP as I remember is to have 1 or 2 men cross first, and after all clear, the rest of the section or platoon or company crosses.

We move like that in SAF, too. One picture doesn't tell the whole story. The MAF are supposed to be quite capable jungle fighters, so they should know la...

And after all this is just their TA (part timers) not SOF.

chino65 SG

HK21 is belt-fed and is slightly more successful than the mag-fed version MAF is using. These are out of production, you won't find it on the H&K website even. I found the model once before, but now I forget.

EDIT: Here's the pic, the magazine is not there but you can see there's no provision for belt-feed, so it is not a HK21.

can anyone ID this weapon?

chino65 SG

Yes, you are right, that's what I meant - zeroing the rifle to the individual. Embarassed

So it is correct to say that if I pick up someone else's weapon, I won't be able to shoot as accurately, true?

chino65 SG

got it, it is the HK11. Basically a G3 with a heavy barrel.
http://www.eas.gr/index.php?lang=en&sec=7&cid=116

SpecOps87 SG

Yah, u won't be able to hit tt accurately. But for relatively short ranges of 100 or so, it should still be okay cuz the deviation can't be that much, unless the original user is some cocked-eyed fella den tt one bobian, lol.

**Ps. is the SAR21 "factory-zeroed" to a set range of say 200m/300m? or what? because from what I understand, the closer you are to the target, the higher the bullet hit, and the further, the lower the hit. So if its set at a certain range of zero, doesn't the shooter have to like aim off etc.?**

tankfanatic SG

unless the area were fully secured

specialOps SG

The SAR-21's scope comes outta the factory zeroed for 400m. and the laser for i think 50m or something...can't remember.

Usually go range do minor zeroing, and also for those funny people who don't centre their eye to the scope.

You actually got to know how to properly use the scope, cause the image circle is floating, you got to centre it, you can't just put it to your eye and fire away at where the cross is....you'll miss it.

Some people who dunno how to centre the scope, even after "zeroing" still miss.

chino65 SG

True, it's not anstant hit just becos there's a scope. Everything need correct training.

During my time when I pick up the sharpshooter's scoped M16, I couldn't even FIND the target - which in all fairness was a fast moving one. It was a girl water-skiiing in bikini more than 300m from where we were deployed in Selectar Island. Took several seconds of pointing here and there before I found the target. And then I was not used to the sight picture. A lot of black space surround the small circular sight picture.

gary1910 SG

Wrong , M-16 was selected some 30+ years ago than abt 15 years ago, MAF selected the Steyr AUG to replace the M-16A1 in the regular army and the old M-16A1 is relegated to part timer TA.

So Steyr AUG design must be better than the M-16A1 since it was selected to replace M-16A1, at least logically, but for the case of MY , you will never know!!! Laughing

So is it logical in the first place for MAF to dump the old design M-16 and then later go back to it again?

Anyway, your stated that becos MAF has used the M-16A1 before and due to logistically reason, therefore it is rational to continue to use old design but upgraded M4!!!

That statement will be logical if they progress from M-16A1 to M-16A2 but they did not, and 2ndly that is only evolutionary , not revolutionary.

Therefore, to be revolutionary, you can't continue to use an old design as newer AR come online, one must evaluate all that are available to make the most cost-effective and rational decision, that process could take years, just look at the US for the M-16 replacement (and yes US is also looking to replace their M-16 too) and SAF becos you are talking abt re-equiping the entire armed forces for at least 2 decades.

Therefore, one cannot be just select the old design just becos of logistical reason, if there are better design AR is available and within budget, then that will be the rational choice.

tankfanatic SG

they have been testing XM 8 too..but its obvious they didnt want it.

tankfanatic SG

extreme left soldier M4?

this one on the left M4 too? that guy doesnt look like a radio man

tankfanatic SG

this is in the 80's when they were fighting thr communist..what kind of rifle is that?

tankfanatic SG

if you ask me..too many different type of weapon

gary1910 SG

That is becos SAF method of putting a scope on the M-16 is not a good design.

Let me explain, when you put your cheek against the butt of the M-16, you will find that most of the time you could see the the front sight tip and the rear aperture is more or less align to your master eye, at most just alittle adjustment

Why?

That is becos the height of the sight is more or less the average cheek to eye distance for an average person.

For our M-16 with a scope, the scope is higher due to it is mounted on top of the carrier handle, forcing you to readjust your position to the higher scope( abt an inch).

2ndly, a lot of black space was due to your eye is too far away from the scope.

All these problem is due to the scope height is not at the optimum height causing you to do a lot of adjustment.

That is why other armies are using P-rail to mount their scope so to have optimum height and distance so that when you take aim , you dun need much adjustment.

Our SAR-21 dun have such problem as it is already in the optimum height and distance, when put your cheek on the butt, you will find that you dun need to do much adjustment to align the weapon to the target.

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