Why SAR21 cannot underslung?

Daniel-Lim SG

Why do we still have to use the M16/M203 IN SAR21 units?

CM06 SG

Probably because the SAR21 Gl has problems with tradjactory for our combat environment. OR it's too expensive to make every section carry 1* 6 shot heavy AGL.

M16/M203 still a good weapon what. If it's not THAT broken dont need to fixed it...yet.

chino65 SG

Originally posted by CM06:
Probably because the SAR21 Gl has problems with tradjactory for our combat environment.

Probably? Or for sure?

Originally posted by CM06:
OR it's too expensive to make every section carry 1* 6 shot heavy AGL.

I don't know about a 6-shot GL...

...but I don't think money is the problem why we don't issue SAR21 with GL. We like to mention money as a cause for problems we don't understand. Like I brought up the question of why the Ultimax drum was never issued for training and someone said "COST"!

I don't think it is cost, I think the SAR21 w/GL and the Ultimax drum not being issued for training means there might be techincal bugs with those systems.

Originally posted by CM06:
M16/M203 still a good weapon what. If it's not THAT broken dont need to fixed it...yet.

Hehe, if by that token we don't need to replace the M16 either. Not broken wah...

Ever thought about the problem that the M16/M203 use a different magazine from the SAR21? That's a pretty serious problem don't you think?

Seth35 SG

Does singapore use other own manufacture guns like SAR80 ??

Seems like they make it but never use...

sgf SG

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Sar21-M203_FCC.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Sar21-LMG.JPG

Other versions exist but why they aren't in use by SAF, only SAF will know. Not cost effective? Got major flaws? God knows.

SexyChin SG

I did so many underslungs with SAR21 in my unit.

edwin3060 SG

Maybe the M16/M203 combo is there so that the SAW gunner has someone to kope magazines from when he runs out? And the Ultimax hasn't been replaced cuz the SAR-21 LMG has overheating problems. Not a very good reason I know but its the best I can think of.

Anyway, I would expect that the M16 will stick around for quite long. The whole army hasn't converted to SAR-21 yet, ditto for Navy and Airforce.

tankee1981 SG

There you go... Very Happy

From the pictures above it looks very similar to any of our own SAF armskotes!
The wooden racks and the chain. Maybe they are in limited service or late stage testing by only certain units such as the RDF or Cdos.

chino65 SG

Actually doesn't look like any SAF armskote at all.

All SAF armskote from recruit until reservist the weapons are placed horizontally, never verticallly. Cos all the oil will flow into the backside.

Furthermore, these weapons are brand new.

I know SAR21/M203 exists, from all the photos you can find on the internet, just like the Ultimax drum. Mr. Green

But why never issue? Must be problematic, fragile, unreliable or something.

...

The SAR-21 LMG is very worrying. Are they gonna replace Ultimax?

I know they must be trying, cos SAF always LOVE to standardise. Now so many different weapon types, different magazines etc like rojak.

Ponders SG

Funny, my NS days from Recruit to ORD, all the armskote weapons are stored vertically NEVER horizontally.

in fact, newer units use the archiving filing cabinets (those with rails and moveable) to save space.

the only unit i encounter that stores their weapons horizontally is Shooting Contingent, and thats only because their weapons are going permanent storage.

other units that i know storing their weapons horizontally.....

MORTAR,
ARTY guns
F-16s
Frigates,
Corvettes

chanjyj SG

Concur. However pistols I saw them in a metal box Laughing

Daniel-Lim SG

No man, all the armscote I been in were horizontal. All weapons, including GPMG were stored horizontally. The support company 84 also horizontal.

NEVER, NOT ONE TIME, did I see one armscote that store weapons vertically.

BTW, my time still M16, just in case we are talking about different rifle.

LazerLordz SG

Mine was mixed.

Shotgun SG

Eh, maybe you guys are from the way way old days.

Even in my unit, we hard racks like this to store our rifles.

sgf SG

Did my BMT at 3 BTS at Nee Soon. Always kena arrow to help armskoteman. Super confirm that the M16 were VERTICAL. When I was posted to unit I didn't go armskote that often 'cos was downgraded to C2 but I do recall the M16s were also vertical 'cos I kena the stupid COC parade before ORD.

Anyway, talking about standardisation, if SAF really wants to standardise why are some units still using M16? I'm no war strategist but this is a scenario from a non-combat serviceman's view.

Imagine war breaks out & chaos rules. You find yourself, a reservist armed with M16, running out of ammo or totally flat out. You come across a dead friendly who has ammo BUT he's packing a SAR-21. What are you gonna do? Unload all his rounds from his SAR-21 mags & reload into your M16 mags and pray no enemy finds you till you're done? No point asking me to grab his SAR-21 'cos I don't know how to use the damn thing let alone clear an IA on it.

At least with the same rifle type, if I'm out of ammo and I come across a dead friendly, I can simply grab his mags and am ready to go. Ok let's not talk about ethics and military law and what not lah. When war breaks out and your life is at stake, screw everything.

I will NOT steal ammo from an injured friendly 'cos he still needs to defend himself but I have no qualms about stealing ammo and just about anything useful from a friendly who's as dead as a door knob.

The Belgian FN F2000 uses the same mag as M16. Why couldn't they design the SAR-21 to at least use M16 mags too?

Typhoon SG

On Tekong M16s were stored vertically. In armskotes elsewhere I saw rifles (SAR-21s and M16s) and SAWs on horizontal racks. It really depends on the layout of the armskote in question, so no one is wrong.

beavan SG

what's the big diff in clearing IA in SAR21 and M16?

it's the same shit, just take out mag, cock a few times and reload and fire. same for all rifles

just that the cocking handle and the magazine release are in different areas.

Ponders SG

now i think back... and recalled during my unit days..

ya.. the SAR 21s were stored vertically....

the M-203, M16s were stored horizontally on black racks...

chanjyj SG

Maybe depends on each individual unit. Anyway has anyone seen how the P226s are stored? everytime I see them thrown into a pile (with their magazines) into a small metal box)

chanjyj SG

You can figure out pretty fast. Like firing a FiveseveN is no dfferent from firing the P226.