Malaysian-born US soldier files lawsuit over Iraq deployment

chino65 SG

Originally posted by Arapahoe:

i thought as an "combat" engineer the risk level is as high as the 1st wave in an assult such as blow up barrier or bridge connection under fire to allow heavy equipment to cross.

Yes, they do come under fire.

Like during the Yom Kippur War the Egyptian Combat Engineers had to ferry troops across the canal, build pontoon bridges and use water canon to blast Israeli sand bank - all done under fire.

They still risk death. They draw combat pay like infantrymen but have a higher survival chance.

But some of the really risky " bridge blowing " task could be jobs for commandos and not engineers.

Arapahoe SG

The reason i said that is because I saw a news clip during the Iraq invasion where the Brit combat engineer storm the sand dune. Blow up the dune to allow the colunm of IFV thru. If they had encounter pocket of resistant i am sure it will be bloody.

Shotgun SG

Link please.

I'm not surprised actually. But those guys are like the equivalent of our field pioneers. Maybe organic to their armored units.

Arapahoe SG

Would it make more sense to have the organic section within the engineer unit to be the assult force? i was thinking Since the sequence of troops movement would required engineer to move forward to clear barrier.

chino65 SG

I once bumped into a guy i knew before NS during a field excercise. I was in Brigade S2. He was a Hokkien peng in a pioneer platoon. I have never seen him that depressed and there was not one single smiling face in his whole platoon.

They all had a little " golf club " which I was told they use to probe for landmines while crawling on the ground. And it was a very hot day.

If you ask me, pioneer is the worst army job.

Shotgun SG

That one not really used anymore lar. If we want to clear an area of mines, we’ll use projected line charges. But still, they have to learn how to probe for mines lar, part of the training.

givemeluck SG

a disgrace to chinese , he is juz being coward

tankee1981 SG

Its hard to say actually because religion is in the picture...but then again if one join the army volunteerly(unlike our NS system) he must be prepared to be sent to a war zone to serve...in short be prepared to kill someone...when they teach you to fire a rifle the main aim is not for you to be marksman with shooting target boards... Very Happy

Daniel-Lim SG

I just watched the Michael Moore 911 documentary again.

bin Laden actually did Bush a HUGE favour by giving him an excuse to start a war to divert attention away from his disastrous running of the country.

Moore also alleged Bush decided to attack Iraq to draw attention away from the real culprits - the Saudi bin Laden family, close friends and business associates of the Bush family (a fact).

(But thanks to the recent movie "Kingdom", though quite sub-standard story etc, Hollywood reminded us that Saudi is a very real source of terrorists.)

Furthermore, the 911 documentary's claim that the war was to get Iraq's oil also cannot be disputed.

In US, a president can get impeached for extra-marital sex where no one got killed. But a president that lies, protects the bin Laden family and sent thousands home from Iraq in body bags goes scot-free to live the rest of his life in money.

Forgive me for ranting, just very affected by watching the 911 documentary again. At the time of the documentary's release, the Iraq body count of US troops was only in the hundreds. Now it is in the thousands.

Of course, I am less concerned for the US troops than for the innocent Iraqi civilians terrorised and killed by both sides in the fighting. Nobody is counting their loss.

But back to Calvin Lee, if you read the last 2 lines of the report, he actually did have a very good reason for NOT wanting to go to Iraq:

"By November, Lee ..... the end of his Army service, which was originally scheduled for September, the ACLU said.

But in December, the Army informed Lee that his term of service was being extended and his unit would be deployed to Iraq, ..."

Basically, he was supposed to ORD. But suddenly that was not only revoked, he will be sent to Iraq.

And those troops who are already in Iraq are also forcibly having their tour and contracts extended, right?

Shotgun SG

Haha, 911 was a big fiasco. Only the US government thinks that the whole world is comprised of ill informed idiots.

I remember that day like it was yesterday man.

Tower 1 and 2 were hit by airplanes and came down. Tower 7 came down despite not being hit by anything. And the 911 commission had the gall to claim that fire burnt a modern steel structure down.

I remember the explosions that went off ahead of the collapsing structure. I remember the UFO that flew past the towers and going WTF IS THAT?!

911 was a big farce. A farce that allowed the US Government to secure much needed funds to enter a war, to pay off the military, maintain global presence.

storywolf SG

haha that is what they alway tell you when they want you to clear the obstacle in front - "yes there is artillery , yep soldier ready to protect you" !!!

But in real - the obstacle is in front line - usually guarded by enemy .... !!!

So what you expect the top man to tell you " Combat engineer -go take down the obstacle .....but we may not have anything to protect you !!!"

Think have they ever even teach you to how to call down artillery fire in combat engineers ? Yep you go to gap !.... then yell enemy engage in gap !!! artillery engage .... help ..... you think the artillery can target them ? or maybe the rounds may end up on top of you instead.

Shotgun SG

Sorry I don't blow open gaps.

Laughing

We kena arty, the equipment gets blown up, too many pioneers die, the Leopard2s, SM1s, and tonner better figure out how to SWIM across the water or causeway.

LazerLordz SG

Not sure about today, but in the 70s, Bridging Engineers had organic recon elements.

These chaps were trained in combat survival, recon and raiding work in addition to their primary role as scout parties for the safest and best river crossing zones.

chino65 SG

But Michael Moore is a fraud, as bad as Bush. So much of what he said is made up as well.

Daniel-Lim SG

Most certainly agree. Moore is a crook.

The things that I was referring to is not the drivel from Moore. The things that affected me from the film were reported facts.

For example, Saddam did not have anything to do with bin Laden. Iraq had no WMD. These 2 facts alone made the Iraq invasion questionable.

Shotgun SG

And don't forget the other farce about US troops in Iraq being BANNED from wearing Dragonskin body armor, and only allowed to wear US MILITARY approved Interceptor armor.

Countless tests have shown Dragonskin to be superior to the Interceptor, yet the Pentagon can daringly claim that Dragonskin failed their tests. Dragonskin was not even penetrated by a GRENADE going off right in front of it, and withstood AK-47 7.62mm fire from point blank!

If those troops have to be there, why don't they give them the best protection there is available? Again, its politics and Money.

tankee1981 SG

Therefore we must not allow politicians to interfere with military affairs. As in the case of Malaysia and US,the politicians will manage the military according to their interests and not to the nation's and soldiers interest.

edwin3060 SG

Apparently the problem wasn't with the bullet resistance of the dragonskin, but with the fact that the plastic laminates used to hold to 'scales' together decomposed at 60 Celsius and above. The company argued that by 60 Celsius, the soldier would be dead, but they did not take into account the storage and transport of dragonskin, where such high temperatures are easily reached.

Remember that a bullet-resistant vest for military use must not only be effective, it must remain effective after being stored for many years. How much do you think the US Army would have to pay for climate control chambers to store the body armour to ensure that it wouldn't fall apart? Would it be cost effective for the increase in bullet resistance?

Also, dragonskin is heavier than the presently issued body armour, so soldiers move slower and suffer more heat injuries.

In summary, bullet resistance is not the only factor that determines whether a vest is chosen. We should keep in mind other criteria whereby the vest could have been rejected before condemning political interference in the military.

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